Are American Catholics still against Abortion?
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
March 24, 2009 11:38am CST
During the 2008 campaigns, Speaker Pelosi stated that the Catholic Church doesn't seem to have an opinion about abortion. This, of course, was met with a huge outcry, since very vew organizations have been more clear about their opposition to anything.
While I have no reason to doubt the Pope's clear policy against abortion, I have to wonder about some of the local leaders.
What message does it send when Father John I. Jenkins, president of Notre Dame approves an invitation to Prs. Obama to speak at the commencement address? Prs. Obama has never been shy about his support for abortion on demand. During the campaign, it even came out that he supported allowing the baby born of a failed abortion to just be left to die.
Not only has the invitation been approved, but the pre-eminent Catholic institution in the United State has deemed it proper to honor Prs. Obama with an honorary Doctorate!
The Vatican may be clear in its policy on abortion, but if this is the kind of thing that is "acceptable" to Father Jenkins, I fear Nancy Pelosi wasn't completely wrong.
4 people like this
7 responses
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
24 Mar 09
The Pope, as head of the church, says that abortion is a mortal sin and that you will be ex-communicated for doing so. However, in the US a lot of the Priests and Bishops tend to do things the way they want to do them. I do not think that they actually condone abortion or preach that it is ok, but they do not prevent prominent speakers who are for abortion, from speaking at their universities and presenting them with honors. Of course by allowing them to speak, they are giving tacit approval.
Shalom~Adoniah
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Mar 09
I guess I just don't understand how someone can call themselves Catholic but go against the teachings of the Pope... and for clergy to rebuff the Pope like that... well.. like I said, I don't understand.
2 people like this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
25 Mar 09
Ok, Ted, as a Catholic I have to take personal offense at your response. Am I any less a Catholic if I don't ascribe to everything the Pope says? The Catholic church has many rules. Am I any less a Catholic if I don't follow each and every one of them? Am I any less a Catholic if I have *opinions* that are contrary to the opinions of the Church? Am I not permitted to have my own opinions *because* I'm Catholic? Is the Catholic church akin to a cult where I must agree with and follow each and every teaching and opinion of the Pope blindly...as if I had no mind of my own? I anxiously await your views on this...as a fellow human being FIRST and as a Catholic second.
1 person likes this
@tcage08 (88)
• Canada
25 Mar 09
I guess the confusion is, is it not a tenet of th Catholic faith that you believe in the Pope as a prophet? If so, would following him not be the Catholic thing to do?
Yes, you are a human being first...which means you have the choice to follow or not. But again, if the Catholic faith recognizes the Pope as a Prophet (i'm assuming so, honestly i dont know that muich about Catholicism outside the basics), then wouldn't condoneing abortion, when the Pope does not, be in opposition to being Catholic? (not that i am saying you are or are not a Catholic, i don't know you from Adam..but your i don't follow your logic)
@turandotty (228)
• United States
25 Mar 09
It sort of depends on the Catholic. Most practicing, church-going Catholics are definitely against abortion. However, a lot of Catholics who aren't really into their religion, but were raised in it are pro-abortion. I'm a Catholic and I'm against abortion.
What Pelosi said is outrageous, and I don't think any bishop, priest, or even the pope, would consider her a good Catholic.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Mar 09
So why the open endorsement and honors to such a pro abortion president?
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Mar 09
True, but it's not out of the question to expect leaders of Catholic institutions to be "into their religion" ;~D
1 person likes this
@AngryKittyMSV (4317)
• United States
27 Mar 09
Uh, I am actually screaming about our money being spent to FORCE abortions on Chinese women, and I am technically pro-choice (meaning CHOICE, not being FORCED into something) and I am also technically a Catholic, but admittedly a "bad" Catholic and non-practicing. But I think I may be an anomaly...
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Mar 09
Yes, the Church itself does, but if the local clergy and representatives of the Catholic Church throw out such mixed signals...
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Mar 09
No, in Obama an honorary law degree, they are supporting his pro abortion (as well as his pro infantacide) stances.
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30959)
• United States
26 Mar 09
Maybe they are finally separating the church from politics? Maybe just setting a good example that we should not judge others based on our own personal beliefs? I am willing to bet that he is actually very against abortion but accepting Obama's right to his own thoughts and beliefs.
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
26 Mar 09
I'm Roman Catholic and I'm pro choice. Although I personally find abortion abominable, I think the choice should rest with the woman who is carrying the embryo. A lot of Catholics feel the same and since as far as I know, the Pope has never spoken Ex-Cathadra on abortion, we can still be Catholics in good standing although a lot of recent publicity has indicated otherwise.
PS Notre Dame might be pre-eminent in sports but most Catholics would consider Georgtown to be the pre-eminent Catholic university.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
26 Mar 09
"For this reason, it is necessary to help all people to be aware that the intrinsic evil of the crime of abortion, which attacks human life at its beginning, is also an aggression against society itself,"
This statement by the Pope doesn't leave much room for discussion.
As for Notre Dame or Georgetown, you're probably right.
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0506904.htm
@AngryKittyMSV (4317)
• United States
27 Mar 09
I can not speak for all, but most PRACTICING Catholics I know oppose abortion. My mom my dad (when he was alive), my sister, my aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents (one of which is still alive) are all practicing Catholics and agree with the Pope on this issue. The Pope is not a "prophet" as I have seen him regarded as here in this the read, he is "Christ's Vicar on Earth" meaning he is the voice of the Church. The Pope is "infallible" according the the Roman Catholic Church, meaning that he cannot be wrong.
I make no claims to be a "good Catholic" because I truly am not, I'm just letting you know what I know as I understand it having been raised in that church.
Divorcees can be excommunicated from the Church as well, marriage is supposed to be a one shot deal, a lifetime commitment, a holy sacriment - but few seem to see it that way any more. Doesn't mean it isn't so, but people tend to ignore things that are inconvenient to them. There are many Catholics who have divorced that still claim to be Catholic.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Mar 09
Right. it's not about individual views here, it's about the leaders of Notre Dame (which are leaders of the local Catholic Church) honoring someone who is not only pro abortion, but pro infanticide.
2 people like this
@AngryKittyMSV (4317)
• United States
27 Mar 09
Also, that priest should have his head examined and face discipline from the church for inviting 0bama to speak at commencement for a Catholic University. Some 65,000 people have already signed a petition opposing 0bama being there.
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
26 Mar 09
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=2315
Ted-
This article was from the recent handling of an abortion in a 9 year old girl in Brazil in which the Catholic church upheld the excommunication of the doctor. So, being that this was the most recent, even if in Brazil, I would assume American catholics are still held to the Code of Canon Law.
http://www.americancatholic.org/news/newsreport.aspx?id=796
This is a recent article in American Catholic which urges Catholics to pray against abortion, etc.
I grew up Catholic, but I'm no longer a practicing one. I have to say that for myself I've always been torn. I feel it's wrong to use abortion as birthcontrol, but in the case of an emergency, or such I feel that the mother's life is always most important. It would be a very difficult decision, mind you, but one that would have to be made.
I think though that the Catholics meeting with the President despite his views on abortion or anything else for that matter is a good one. The Catholic church, in my humble opinion, in America has at least been trying to bridge the community via acceptance of all regardless of our race, creed, etc. I know they've gotten a bad rap for their history, but sad truth is none of the organized faiths have a good clean history. I grew up when the late Cardinal Bernadine was working in the city of Chicago trying to get people to stop the violence. I always admired his efforts.
Enjoy the articles. Namaste-Anora
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Mar 09
The problem isn't Obama meeting with Catholic leaders, in fact, I wouldn't have a problem with Obama speaking at any university... The hypocrisy is where Notre Dame is giving Obama an honorary law degree. They are honoring a man whose position on abortion is completely contrary to Catholic doctrine.
Obama's position on abortion in general is bad enough, but his position that babies who live through the abortion should be left to die is INHUMAN!
1 person likes this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
27 Mar 09
It's a touchy issue, I give you that. I have my own feelings on abortion that are right for me, but I'd not assume to say they are right for every person. Each person, in my humble opinion, has to come to their own decision on what is right for them.
In terms of the college giving him an honorary degree, many colleges do this for a variety of people be they presidents, actors, etc. To me, it's just publicity for their school. I doubt any college is truly holding with their deep spiritual issues. I'm a Pagan, if one wants to lable my spiritual views, and I attend a Luthern college. My money is just as good as someone elses regardless of beliefs lol.
Namaste-Anora
@sid556 (30959)
• United States
26 Mar 09
I was raised Catholic but have not followed the religion in years. If they have changed their stance on abortion, then they have changed a great deal. They have always been against even birth control. I can only think that the Pope is accepting Obama as a person and still not accepting his beliefs if that makes any sense. Kind of like....I can be friends with a person whose beliefs are very different than my own because I do like and respect that person even if I don't subscribe to all of their thinking. A person does not have to think or be like me in order for me to respect them and enjoy their company.