Should users only giving + to a certain user purposefully be restricted?
By sanuanu
@sanuanu (11235)
India
April 4, 2009 12:34pm CST
I am taking a reference to this discussion which one of mylot staff has started.
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1402356.aspx?p=1
For your conviniece I am using a referal too!
Let's take your example where a member goes around and rates all of your discussions negatively. This behavior is tracked and noticed, and that users ratings are rendered virtually worthless in our system. Not only will their ratings become irrelevant to you, but their ratings will become irrelavent to any dicusssion in the future as well.
Now, you must have understood the meaning of my topic, didn't you?
My question is simply if a person is rating someone purpose fully + then isn't that unfair too? That should also be taken care, don't you think?
7 people like this
11 responses
@mathss1 (1181)
• United States
5 Apr 09
Ratings are always abused on Mylot a few days back I had an argument with an eastern RELIGIOUS group they rated me down to hell I was the only mylotter above 500 posts with a zero star .
I did not stop then and they started reporting me (My previous account was set to inactive )
So ratings should be restricted (agreed)
Have a gr8 time
Njoy
3 people like this
@sanuanu (11235)
• India
5 Apr 09
Sad very sad! It should never been done. that is why I say avoid those nasty guys religious topics. There are people who belive in healthy and fruitful discussion. Whey wasting time on those nasty people discussion.
My best wish with you!
I hope we can rate you up from where you can see yourself at a reasonable position!
2 people like this
@mysdianait (66009)
• Italy
4 Apr 09
Great to see that the discussion you point to is still being read by users It contains such a lot of information.
As for your query, yes I guess it would be unfair. I also think that myLot have considered this aspect too.
This is what it says in the FAQs:
[i]'Is there a way for someone to game the DRS and artificially inflate/deflate action quality?
The DRS algorithm is very complex and will detect many forms of inappropriate ratings. If a user is trying to game the system, this abuse will only hurt the user. The integrity of the DRS is the top priority of the DRS team at myLot. In addition to the many automatic safeguards that are already in place, we are closely monitoring DRS activity to identify and prevent inappropriate ratings.'[/i]
I think the fact that it says that should be proof that they have considered rating in both directions as a possbility and have taken measures to check it.
2 people like this
@mysdianait (66009)
• Italy
4 Apr 09
Mine suffered a bashing too a few months back but... by one user?
Surely it's teamwork?
Would it be possible to inflate it too in the ame way?
3 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
4 Apr 09
I, too, find MyLot's insistence on the integrity of the rating system somewhat at variance with what seems to be the fact of the matter. It is one reason why I tend to judge people by their input (as seen on their profiles) in conjunction with their star colour. When (and if) such a rating system seems to give me information which I can see is useful, I may then begin to give it some credit. Until then I shall give it what weight is meaningful to me, which, at the moment, is a very qualified one.
3 people like this
@sanuanu (11235)
• India
5 Apr 09
It is quite a challenge to mylot mathematician that they catch these abusive work even if it was done by a team,no matter how big it is.
I started to believe that star system now has been rectified after reading FAQ and the discussion I had mentioned but recently, just recently I heard that one of the mylot user lost her 9 rating points overnight. I saw the hot discussion also where she was being attacted by one or two mylotian. I am still wondering, if that was a team work or done by only one or two.
the problem is that once they track it with one or two users, the damage is already done if the affected user is new, because - rating has bigger impact for new users.
MYKLJ999_VERSION_2 (1470): Why can't I see your avatar?
Owlwings: Interesting way to give ratings. I am not that hard worker, I just give my rating based on discussion quality. That too I wasn't doing till last month. Before that I used to give only + rating no matter how good or bad the discusison quality was!
2 people like this
@michaeldadona (5684)
• Malaysia
4 Apr 09
WHAT I CAN SAY ~ is I don't see any "smart" relevancy between DRS and a quality discussion. I know its function and myLot objective by providing the "+ and -" buttons; is to encourage members to rate "-" to any discussion, comment, or response that we feel contributes negatively to the myLot community.
THE HAPPENING
But, many times it happened the other round, where there are members personally disagree with poster and not the discussion itself, also can rate negative. What I can suggest here is the negative rating authoritatively control by myLot and for positive rating in the option form of 1, 2, 3, 4, & 5(full mark). By using this system then members know or notice that myLot discourage their discussion once deleted or their star rating plummet; and no more need for them to guess for who did that.
AN EXAMPLE TO MY PROPOSAL
If an only if or let say; I dislike you or your discussion, I can do nothing because there is no "-" button. If I like you or your discussion, I can choose the degree of liking either for level 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5.
2 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
4 Apr 09
I like your proposal in principle, Michaeldadona, but the disadvantage is similar to the one that has virtually killed a number of the 'survey' sites (or at least, has caused them to modify their terms).
As has been stated, false positive ratings are potentially as damaging to the MyLot DRS system as negative ones. It seems that the DRS system MAY detect all anomalies in ratings, whether negative or positive though I wish that Crash had been a little more specific.
I would advocate a system with a little more transparency, something along the lines of Yahoo! Answers system but perhaps with a little more flexibility than a 'thumbs up'/'thumbs down' rating, though that might work.
My proposal would see responses to a discussion ordered by the rating they have acquired so that those which many people think are good responses would tend to rise to the top. The discussion owner would always have the final say (by giving a BR) and his/her BR vote would always be more important than other votes. I can see this system being an interesting challenge to the mathematicians in MyLot (and I can think of a number of entertaining ways in which it might be implemented).
The end result would be that, if one looked at a fairly old discussion with many responses, one would see those responses which most tended to be voted 'good' at the head of the thread. Those responses with less general approval would sink to the bottom of the pile.
Already, though, I am anticipating a problem with this in that a discussion may have a handful of mediocre responses in its lifetime, which may receive votes according to peoples' perception of the available responses but then someone enters the discussion with a superb response that gets very few votes because the discussion is already old.
It is inevitably easier to find flaws in any existing system and to suggest amendments. Actually, the proper way to go is to look for its strengths and to try to use those to advantage. Having done that successfully, one then may be in a position to suggest improvements!
3 people like this
@michaeldadona (5684)
• Malaysia
4 Apr 09
Thanks owlwings ~ for your high quality comment, communication skills and kind of nice suggestions; overall seven (7) paragraphs well presented in neat discipline in writing. OK ~ I can accept your suggestion forwarded by comparison with what had been implemented by Yahoo Answer! Hopes our shout heard by myLot admin..
2 people like this
@sanuanu (11235)
• India
5 Apr 09
I can choose the degree of liking either for level 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5.
That would be too much work for us as a mylotian.
Thanks guys for proving such high quality response as well as comments.
I have read crash's response and according to him, if one team would do things purposefully then that can also be tracked. I don't know how much mylot can track that but bad things are still happening, so this rating system has not done good till date but it has been improved a lot.
I can remember 2-3 years back when DRS was introduced, people tends to loose their star by 4 or 5 over night and mine also was affected by that.
Now, I don't know what mathematicians are doing but my choice is to stick with current DRS system. The star rating must be given on average number of + or - we get for a day. If on particular day we get more than what our average is then we will get increase in rating or vice versa. In this case the older mylotian be the harder for the scamers to hit bad or good!
2 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
5 Apr 09
If I have occasion to report a discussion (or a response), I will rate it negative; very occasionally I feel that a discussion is not in the spirit of MyLot but is not worth reporting and I will then rate it negative. (It also helps me to know whether I have dealt with a discussion before).
Much more often, though, I rate good content as positive. I am sorry to say that I am not as assiduous about this as I might be!
2 people like this
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
8 Apr 09
I've read that discussion, and the FAQ's and fail to believe that their algorithm online is so sophisicated that it can detect those purposefully inflating or deflating another user. They do not answer questions directly, they do not fix ratings that were given in an unfair manner,and no mathimatical algorithm is full proof where computer programming is concerned. There are always ways around it.
I agree with Diana that it's possible it's "teamwork" in which several users decide to inflate or delate another's rank. And yes, it then makes the system completely useless and arbitrary. If it were a computer program set up on parameters that only the system ranked (not users, but the system itself)then I could see how it could be slightly more fair and failsafe in that outside users could not influence the algorithm.
To say what others have said to me in the past, just have fun. Don't worry so much, and it will all work out as it should.
Namaste-Anora
1 person likes this
@sanuanu (11235)
• India
8 Apr 09
(un)luckily I don't run a forum otherwise I would have faced the same situation. Rules are made for us but if we don't follow and try to find holes in it then nothing can go nice for us. It should be remember that ultimately it is the end user who gets suffered if the rules are not obeyed.
So, did you get your problem solved of 10 discusiosn getting deleted every day?
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
8 Apr 09
Sanu-
A valuable lesson learned about democracy, eh? It's not full proof and it's not without problems. It is however one of the few forms of rule that allow for the people to voice their concerns,and hopefully come together in peace to make changes for the better. The thing with forums, of any kind, is there are always "leaders" and "creators". No matter how well off they wish to be, they are still human, and prone to human error.
I know that many on here run their own forums, so they can attest to the issues that occur. One wants to be fair, without judgement, but sometimes a decision must be made, and it's not always an easy one. Sometimes it's a matter of casting out both parties in a dispute just to get it over with, regardless of who is at fault. Not always fair, but sometimes needed for the better of the community. Just keep working hard, I'm sure it will pay off in time.
Namatse-Anora
1 person likes this
@scififan43 (2434)
• United States
4 Apr 09
I have not been on mylot for a long time, I am not sure about this issue. I will have to look at it more. I will check into it latter on.
2 people like this
@sanuanu (11235)
• India
5 Apr 09
It is about your star rting my friend. You have 8 star with your user name. It means that only 2 rating below from the top.
If I will rate you + you will rise and if I will rate you - you will fall. So, no matter what you say, your rating is in my hands!
3 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
4 Apr 09
Yes, I think that false positives are as potentially damaging to the reputation of MyLot as false negatives. I cannot but think that they have considered that and that the checks they have in place also take account of any anomaly in voting (whether it is positive or negative).
What makes me think this is the (fairly) common knowledge that a number of sites whose payments have relied upon user ratings of posts have had to modify their terms drastically to try to cope with the abuse of their systems by scammers who band together to rate each others' posts positively in order to give their friends (and, presumably, themselves as 'referees') unjustifiably high earnings. I can't believe that MyLot do not monitor their competitors in the PTP business and are not aware of the problem.
1 person likes this
@fallenrain132321 (341)
• United States
5 Apr 09
It's hard for me to say either way. Yes, I can see how it would be unfair for one user to rate another user all + but, I rate almost all of the discussions on here with a +. That is simply because I pick conversations based on what I know and what sounds interesting. I don't just jump into any discussion because I don't make my main goal on here making money. I enjoy actually reading the discussions, understanding them and knowing about the topic. So by picking topics I like, that is the reason I rate discussions with a +. So that makes it kind of hard to answer because if there are others who pick discussions based on the fact that the topic sounds interesting, of course they will rate it with a +. And it will end up being a + just about every time.
1 person likes this
@SomeCowgirl (32191)
• United States
5 Apr 09
While it's fun to let a friends rating go up by you plussing them it is also unfair to only rate their discussions and responses and comments with a plus. It makes their rating look better then what it might be. While I do rate my fiance, I also rate others and I rate because I enjoy the discussions and responses / comments, not to boost their rating.
1 person likes this
@momtrying2makeit (3270)
• United States
5 Apr 09
Well I have been in the dark I had no idea we were able to do this so I am kinda of a little scared in a way that someone can purposely change your rating this way. I myself just learned of this yesterday in another discussion so I know I am not rating anyone in the wrong all the time. I wonder if that is why some people that have been here for several months or have a lot of posts have low star ratings? Anyway this seems to be a ver y intresting discussion so I plan on coming back on taking part in more of it. Thanks and happy mylotting:)
1 person likes this
@May2k8 (18392)
• Indonesia
6 Apr 09
Well, i don't have idea rating someone with + is unfair. I do rating all +, perhaps i am worry if they do it with purpose. We cannot see who rate us, and that is getting worthless. We must be taken care about this for myLot in the future.