Creationism is a Science?!

I understand your view, but the creation of the universe is something as humans we are trying to find. Whilst evolution may not be 100% fact there is enough evidence to give that idea - the fight for survival, bones, combinations of DNA between different species suggesting mutation from one source. This is what science is - is it not? You cannot teach science without asking how/why did it all come about? But you also can't teach religion without thinking: how/why did it all come about? The evidence from the theory of creationism is simply- the bible. The difference between using these in science classes is there... We are learning creation of the universe from a book written by man - thousands of years after creation point. The start of time is impossible to prove without being there. But science and religion each have areas that they follow. Lol, i won't argue about God because A.) i do not believe in the religious idea of God and B.) i'm likely to go on forever arguing it. But i do respect the value of religious faith and scientific knowledge. Happy mylotting and thanks for your reply x

I agree with you one hundred percent! Debating God is essentially useless because there will continue to be stubborn people wherever you go. Having a bit of common sense and logic is the best weapon. You speak it much more clearly than I can. People never seem to question the validity of god, a simple how or why; yet they can be very vocal about their dislike of evolutionary science (simply based on the belief, based on the bible exclusively--and more so society as a whole--which inadvertantly tends to lean towards the bible in one way or another as the "holiest" of books). I believe in evolution much more than I believe in creationism, just because it is much more factual. Sure, I will not admit to believing to the Big Bang theory; however much of evolution really occurs right before our eyes.

Thanks very much for your reply x You're right when you question the favouritism of the bibl's creation theory. There are plenty enough to form a classful - but none are based on scientific and physical knowledge that science is meant to be based upon. Happy mylotting x

The Christian story of creation is not a scientific theory, it is just one of many creation myths. Evolution is not a theory, it is a proven natural process that is ongoing in every living species on this planet. Teaching creation as a science is a crime against knowledge and can only breed ignorance.

Lol i'll try to answer the best i can: A,) The bible has changed with social laws and society through the transition of old testement to the new one, where a loving ideology of God is more prominant. Also... early entries are more sexist against women and other races - on one of other posts i mentioned the favuouritism of Israelis against the egyptians in Moses and the parting of the sea - he would help israelis but it let innoccent children of the Egyptioans die for one person's actions - believing it was justice of God. Yet after teachings of Jesus - the bible done a big switch -a -roo. (But this is all my opinion, before anyone get's insulted- my freewill to choice what i believe) Suddenly the christian thinking is mainly against wars - is more loving and the dominant biblical quote used is 'Do unto thy neighbours as thy would have done unto theirself' or however it's written in Old Language. Done to others as you would like to be treated. Previously the christian belief in God led to the papal banner, the blessing of relligion on wars (Lots of evidence in medieval times where church power was dominant) now the fear is not as controlling more christians tend to follow the 'love' route, and it's more humble and arguably more peaceful and gentle. The opinion and belief in God's role has changed and so.. has the bible.. and so... therefore has society that's mainly been dominated by religion in the past. As technology has evolved we understand warfare tactics and the changes of the weather etc. victories and other experiences are now more explainitory than they have ever been. As a result the idea of God's role has changed - in the past God was something that interferred in wars on one army's side, and saw male as dominant (all the prophets are male... tht's the basic of sexism in it but still fact) whereas 'Jesus forgiving the world it sins' has changed christianity's views as well as the evolution of technology which has lessened the religious leader's hold over the monarchy. The time where religionw as a question of power is gone. My argument was, as i've repreated. Creationism in those schools are being told as 'FACT' not a theory. By teaching this form of creationism they also teach that science is never true, all the data is false as (in some groups) the fossils and rocks where 'aged by the great flood' (Noah's ark). So no, it;s not being taught as a theory- theres a wave of schools over the globe taking this stance now. I think it closes the mind simply because school has a powerful hold on ourt education as well as peers. The parents who voted this in are teaching them at home and then taught again at school. On top of this, they are only referring to one of countless creationist theories over the globe, favouritising Genesis' version. This prevents students being taught it in school like other schools do. By teaching creationism as a science - it doesn't give them a skill for which is employable as a scientist which is recognised globallly. On top of that it therefore discourages learning about space as the genesis story focuses on the evolution of Earth... this favouritises our planet - of which everyone has knowledge... Earth is insignificant in the universe. It's a theory taught in science but is based on a book written by man years after the event took place. It's a bad source of scientific evidence is it not? Therefore it shoudl be taught in religious education which is compulsory anyway. There's freewill to believe what we want to believe... and then there's freewill to believe what's fed to us: how often did you come home from school and think 'I'm going to go on the internet and research the origins of maths' algebra?' If you did, you're a genius and laos unique. It's being taught as fact to teenagers - Science is meant to be fact: hence why it's science. It's the teaching of progression of science discoveries throughout the years based on physical evidence. Evolution is not being taught as a theory but as the main decision about how people evolve: simply through scientific (the key word) evidence of fossils, rocks, skulls, plant progression, mass extinctions etc. It's created through years and years of research and any latest evidence in the scientific world has not disproved the 'theory' yet. Even our DNA suggests mutation of specieds (E.G 98% same as monkeys, 54% in dogs, 34% in daffodils etc - even the crocodile has characteristics more like a bird then as a reptile) It's scientific evidence for a science class that the creationism theory lacks? Does it not? By creationism i do not mean the various forms of it -but the literal translation of the genesis that the world was created in 6 days about a few thousand years ago. To believe this dispproves even the history of mankind let alone science. Both theories have a right to be taught by the education board simply because it keeps students up to date with global progressions. By gatekeeping certain information because that's the opinion of leading authoritarian figures on the education board - welll it;s simply forcing the students to believe their opinions rather than teaching them thoeries of the world. Garunteed these religious students will agree with this theory (Dawkins researched into it - and recognised complete ignorance of science of creation and physics, chemestry and biology etc and also astronomy) as they are religious and being taught that's how God made them. Maybe a few will question it -but after the teachers being reprimanded for teaching evolution - most of those students dont find answers at school. They aren't given freewill (in my opinion) to believe what they want becsause they are being fed informatiion as fact that's not proven fact. I'll agree i don't 100% agree with evoolution either i think it's a large estimation to make in comparison to other planets in the universe. But Charles Dawin was able to supply his theory with enough evidence that's simply become stronger rather than weaker in later years. But like i say, i have my own view on it as others do. Happy mylotting x

How did evolution get started?

There is a strong christian liberal ideology that evolution is merely an extension of the creation story. That rather than being created in 6 days, it was created over a larger period of years as it seems to follow the evolutionary pattern discovered through fossils. This is more likely to be taught as science.. simply because there is something called 'scientific evidence' for it. In comparison to the creation theory... there is nothing that is evidential through the literal translation of Genesis. It's a story that focuses mainly on the creation of Earth... it does not go into detail on the creation of the other planets and vast universe that is just as detailed as this. This shows the narrow-minded and lack of scientific evidence through the time this was written. It sees the Earth and people at the central importance... and is that that not simply human arrogance? Creationism is being taught as a science based on a book. The simplistic evidence is there... through the written word of man. Scientists make theories that they can back with physical evidence and expand on it. The belief in creationism is simply based on a belief in God. God is also simply a theoretical issue. It's nothing factual. Yet creationism is being taught as fact? Evolution at least has physical evidence and noticably correct behavioural patterns that span thousands of years. Everyone has their own opinion i guess. Happy mylotting and thankyou for replying, you gave me alot to think about. x

im not saying that evolution should not be tought, charles darwin had a fantastic mind and had a wounderful idea although i dont agree with him but eaither they should teach both theorie as sciance or they should teach both under another subject such as social studie or something or not teach eaither and leave it to parents to choose what they want there children to know. i am a born again christian but i do not restrict my childrens learning e.g my son has a thing about dinosores and he knows both theories he is obsesed with sciance so he knows that charles dawin had an idea of how we got hear and also the bible tells us how we got hear so when he is older he will make a desision for himself i raise my children that they should look into things evaluate them and decide then they grow into free thinking adults, also even if a child is from a christian home they need information on both or else how are they supposed to defend there faith. i just think there should be both

I am really not trying to be mean here... but did you misspell all those words on purpose?

I'm ashamed to admit that i've never really been taught Buddhism to the extent i can fully understand it's issues and it's peaceful demeanor towards other species. I can't say anything more clearer than you have said, and i admire your understanding and relation too species around you through the free thought to do such. You seem to unbound yourself from the confines of religion and simply do a duty cos it feels the right thing to do. I honestly have nothing to argue with you (and that's a first... i'm always arguing!) thank you very much for sharing this with me and happy mylotting x

Thanks for the best response Sataness!!! Yes, if we look back the history, human beings come to the latest ones. But we human beings have the most advanced brain and are seeking for the knowledge of existence of the life in earth. It is said that before us, there were dinosaurs. Sometimes, when I have nothing important to think, then I may think on these stuffs. And what I think is why only dinosaurs before us, they may be many different types of lives before dinosaurs. I don't know you would accept this or not, but let me divert to the religions. Well rather than religions,lets go to the philosophy or whatever. I don't really know what's really in Christianity and so I don't really know about Jesus much. I am from Nepal(birth place of Lord Buddha), my family background is Hindu by religion. But the problem is that I don't believe in this religion. Because it is totally based upon the existence of god that are all supernatural. But I have read lots of books about Lord Buddha, about his life. And some other philosophic books about the Buddhism. Like I said in the previous thread on "Do you believe in god or not." I don't want to bound myself to a religion. That's very true. And still I am more influenced by this religion. When I used to go to monastery, I used to hear some stories about the Buddhism, I used to hear like we shouldn't kill any creatures, if we do, then we become this, we become that and so on. And I really refrain from killing, not even the mosquito that bites me, I just scare them away. Well the reason is not about the above threats in the story, but the reason is that I keep myself in the position of those innocent creatures, who have the feelings like you and me. What I liked about you in the previous post was that you said, "This world is so cruel. And why would the god make this nature where one has to kill the other to survive." Not exactly this, but the theme was this, isn't it. And I feel the same, why is the world like this, where one is bound to kill or suppress other for the survival. When I think about this world, I feel too sad. And yes, human beings are also one of them, who suppress other animals and even the human being for their survival. And sure for this reason, we human beings can even be lower than the animals. And now let me come back to the beginning, I talked about dinosaurs. Well in the Buddhism, there is the thing like karma. By karma, it means the result of our deeds. Are we really free to seize others life, are we really free to seize others happiness. This is the question I thought. When I think of this, I feel like we are not really free to do such things. And so for this reason there is surely a karma. Getting back the same result as we do to the other. And here comes the purification of soul which Lord Buddha occupied by lot of meditations. Meditation is the strong logic of Buddhism that convinces me because it really has the power. No soul is purified easily, Lord Buddha meditated, seeked here and there in search of knowledge, finally understood the truth and enlightened which is the very very difficult tasks for us to follow. And so, no soul gets purified easily. This is the main basis I think that before dinosaurs too, there may be many other creatures. May be there is no starting point of existence at all, and there has ever been life no matter there is no earth, but in the other forms. And what I believe is no matter this earth will come to the end other day, the life and the existence of feelings of soul will never come to the end until they get purified. Well its already 2:20 and its late night here. Just when I started writing about this as this was my very true thinking in my brain, I could not stop writing. Okay this is the way I thought, you may or may not accept many of my points. I am not a student of philosophy either. I hope you have something better to say on this....Hope to see reply from you... Till then bye...And enjoy mylotting, this is a real place to share these kinds of things...

Well you have a lot of time in your life to know new things. You can read them in the future. I have something for you to read. I hope you will like this. http://thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html I had read about a book called The Four Noble Truths, which is a book from buddhism and was very much impressed by it. The link above contains the four noble truth in short. I hope you like it... Happy mylotting...

hi there i dont know if you are aware but evolution has never been proven it has always remaind a theory and yet we are willing to teach our children it as a sciantific fact when it is just not so i belive creation has just as much right to be tought in sciance as creation neaither have been proven absolutly and both are theorys there is now more evidence that points towards creation than there is evolution and yet we choose the one with the least amount of evidence and proof to teach our children, i think both should be tought as to separate theorys and ideas for the creation of our world

Lol you have everything there in a nutshell. Thank you x no one does have the ability to understand where we come from or how we got here. Lol the situation is that students are being taught it not as a theory but as fact. people and teachers (look at scopes) are being imprisoned or being made to pay money for even teaching evolution - or refering to it. When the scopes case came about - the government refused the defendants to bring in scientists who have evidence for evolution - fundamental to the case, and against the law for creationism. It makes the trials biased. When the defender (unusually) questioned the religious prosecutor the man could not answer questions about things within the bible, and answers showed he seemed to take a liberal idea to everything else in the bible apart from genesis. But the courts -again- took away the fundamental evidence that showed creationism is being taught in ignorance of it's religious origins, simply because the judge preferred creationism. Lol just a bit of context if you were interested but it shows how creationism is being taken as fact, and the right to teach whatever a teacher can teach on the subjects is taken away. The law is manipulating something so small. Thanks very much for replying and i'm sorry for the long responce =P Happy mylotting x

The way I see things... Most of life is a thoery. Even some of the most highly reguarded facts are still theories. Gravity, for instance. We accept that gravity is true. And we will continue to do so untill someone can prove this theory wrong. But, don't forget that thier was a point in time when everyone in the world "knew" the earth was flat and that the Earth was the center of the universe. However, years later technologies were developed that proved these theories as being wrong. Perhaps someday we will have developed a technology sophisticated enough to prove gravity to be true or false, or how the universe began for all that matter.

www.answeringenesis.org/tj/v13/i2/teaching.asp Lol this site gives some polls and statistics on Creationism in America. It is actually becoming incredibly popular mainly over there. Each state and school has been given the right to deicde what to choose: the state schools must teach both, but private schools and religious schools can choose which way they want to teach. Many are choosing the Creationism view. o.O and i just saw how there's 40 schools in the Uk following creationism view. It must be lack of publicity if i missed that in the UK news. Thankyou for replying and happy mylotting

Yup there is a popular wave globally as the governmenting boards are allowing education authorities to make the decision based on their own opinions. Thanks for your reply, stated clearer than i ever could x =]

But the whole point of this discussion... is that the schools ARE NOT presenting both sides... they are presenting one. And to prevent repeating alll the evidence i gave to the exact same questions... look over my responces please, you'll find the answers there. Also they DO teach creationism... i';ll say it again, jhust because it's not top story in the media at the moment does not make it real. Yes, they are using tax payers money to fund schools governmentally run (not necessarily fully religious) based on opinions favouring creationism over science. I also have to add that people have found a skeleton of a creature that does not conform to the main areas of science... this is a late advancement and it could possibly be the missing link. But also... again, just because we are not made aware of everything does not make it impossible. It's incredibly likely the government gatekeep information to prevent out roars - in fact it's proven they do this. 1999: 'Fifty studies were reviewed surverying teaching origins and public opinions. 90% of public suggested evolution and creationism to be taught. Or creationism on it's own. 90% of Americans considered themselves creationists in some form - half believing God created us in our present state a few thousand years ago. In America about 15% of teachers teach booth evolution and creationism. 20% of high school teachers and prominant scientists reject theist evolution.' - statistics in America - 7 years ago. Also see this article written in 2008: www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/08/mccains-vp-want/ And here's another one about 'fundamentalist Christians' (stated in the artical) who took over a state-run school with creationism in mind as science. www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/mar/09schools.religion 'During the mid 1990's, creation science groups started to persuade school boards to give equal time to creation science' 'In recent years, the emphasis has been on encouraging teachers and students to be skeptical of the theory of evolution. Various legislatures have introduced bills to encourage teaching that the theory of evolution contains internal contradictions,. These are typically called 'academic freedom' bills. By the end of 2008 they had been introduced in about seven states and failed in all but Lousiana.' from religioustolerance.org The Scopes trial was 84 years ago.. but it sparked the debate of science vs. religion more prominantly in the schooling environment. I'm not gonna state evidence- cos a.) i;ve done that alread with other responces and b.) i believe both should be taught in school for students freedom. I don't believe in creationism but i was taught it. the individuals aren't being able to choose what they believe.. in creationist schools they teach science data is fundamentally wrong (look it up if that appears an assumption). the whole point of science is physical evidence - and there's enough just looking around us to see the fight for survival, from plants -to animals-to humans. Religious theory of creationism is based on the bible alone. Hence it's a religious theory based in a priori idea of God. Like i mentioned preivous i study R.E, i admire those who believe in God and i'm not opposing people's own opinions. But by favouritising creationism as a science you are isolating modern progression of science, and what it's meant to stand for and also isolating other creationist beliefs in other religions. It's favouritising the christian faith aboth others... and they ARE trying to teach it in state and government funed schools. Also, where do you think the private schools get the money to fund themselves.... it's all out of the tax payers pocket. The building the books the lot. I believe all areas of creationism should be taught under the religious classes- it depends on a faith in God in the first place. But also up-to-date science knowledge should be taught too... at the moment it;s either creationism and evolution or creationism only. It is popular wave now days... That's simply my view... but the individuals are being forced to follow opinions of older generations rather than teachign a wide ranged education as schools are meant to. Happy mylotting and ty for replying x

Hmm i don't know about it being taught in science classrooms, but you;ve made some brilliant points. The main being about the compatibility of science and religion. The only thing i'd say is... science is not focused on religion and that's intentional. The education board make both R.E and Science core subjects throughout the school life (at least they do in England) and so you are taught the spirituality and faith of God through religion and the physical evidence of evolution through science. God is a question of faith - if you don't believe in God or a creator then you tend to not believe the universe his creation, but if you are religious the theories of evolution and the Big Bang can be taught whilst not affecting the student's personal beliefs in religion. There's the conflict Happy mylotting

Aah a liberal view, thanks for your input. When comparing both it seems to flow better that way. Happy mylotting =]

Lol yeah creationism is a growing trend through American high schools i think. The teacher's are presenting the creation theory as fact -against the laws of science. Lol by being narrow-minded i mean: exams involve questions like: how long did it take for God to create the universe. The answer (as my philosophy teacher told) is taught to be 6 thousand years. An answer which discredits everything diiscovered by mankind -simply because the teachers believe in God. If it was being taught as a theory in religion or other means then it's understandable and reliable topic... but it's basically taught because of schools being either religious or the leading parents are religious. It specifies all science is wrong and creationism is right - and this does take away the right to question. Especially if you are brought up with it at home, and then are taught it in school - facts you depend upon to be truth. Ok, by teaching it as science it is respectful to a speciific religion,but closes off other religious ideas about creation and socieities ideas about creation. You are forced to believe one thing - lol as i mentioned in later discussion replies - teachers who do mentioned evolution processes are being victimised and charged in trials. This is how far the debate has led. Happy mylotting x