Will This Loophole In The Smoking Ban Save English Publicans?
By Darkwing
@Darkwing (21583)
May 13, 2009 7:56am CST
I'm pretty busy at the minute, but I logged onto the computer today and spotted this breaking news item, which I just had to share!!! 
As you all know by now, the Smoking Ban in enclosed places in England and Wales, was applied on 1st July, 2007. Since that time, a heck of a lot of pubs have closed, struggling to make their money as beer sales fell drastically.
Well, it would appear that loophole has been discovered, in that if a drinker/smoker fills out a questionnaire on their smoking habits before buying and consuming their drink in the pub, they are legally entitled to smoke therein. This is precisely the rule that's being implied in a Yorkshire Pub. The landlady there is a non-smoker, but she believes in the individual's freedom to smoke in the pub if they wish. According to her, this action has helped tremendously in injecting new life into her pub trade.
Good for her, I say! I think a lot of the "social" aspect has gone out of the pubs... the price of beer keeps rising, and the number of customers keeps falling. Besides all that, the smokers have had their rights taken away when it comes to going for a beer at the pub. I, for one, hate standing out in the cold and rain, but it's something that people do if they want a cigarette, or have done for almost two years now.
What do you think about this landlady's actions, the loophole, and human rights to choose what they do, and where? Have you heard of any other pubs who've found a way through the ban, so as to revive their lost sales? What's your opinion as a whole?
The full report can be read on this website... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090513/tuk-pub-finds-smoking-ban-loophole-repor-a7ad41d.html
As you all know by now, the Smoking Ban in enclosed places in England and Wales, was applied on 1st July, 2007. Since that time, a heck of a lot of pubs have closed, struggling to make their money as beer sales fell drastically.
Well, it would appear that loophole has been discovered, in that if a drinker/smoker fills out a questionnaire on their smoking habits before buying and consuming their drink in the pub, they are legally entitled to smoke therein. This is precisely the rule that's being implied in a Yorkshire Pub. The landlady there is a non-smoker, but she believes in the individual's freedom to smoke in the pub if they wish. According to her, this action has helped tremendously in injecting new life into her pub trade.
Good for her, I say! I think a lot of the "social" aspect has gone out of the pubs... the price of beer keeps rising, and the number of customers keeps falling. Besides all that, the smokers have had their rights taken away when it comes to going for a beer at the pub. I, for one, hate standing out in the cold and rain, but it's something that people do if they want a cigarette, or have done for almost two years now.
What do you think about this landlady's actions, the loophole, and human rights to choose what they do, and where? Have you heard of any other pubs who've found a way through the ban, so as to revive their lost sales? What's your opinion as a whole?
The full report can be read on this website... http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090513/tuk-pub-finds-smoking-ban-loophole-repor-a7ad41d.html6 people like this
11 responses
@AnnieOakley1 (5596)
• Canada
13 May 09
I think this is great!
Majority will rule then and the pubs will be able to get their much needed customer base back.
Most that drink, smoke also, although not all, but I believe the majority.
I think it was daft to put a smoking ban on a pub. They should just put a sign out that says it is a SMOKING establishment, and if the non-smokers do not wish to go in, that is their free choice.
And I know for a fact, that the smoking ban in public places here in Canada, has curtailed alot of customers from even going out to drink at a bar anymore. So the bars HAVE LOST BUSINESS over it.
I vote for FREEDOM of CHOICE and MAJORITY RULES. That is only fair.
I think each pub should be able to make their own choice....smoking or non-smoking.
I know of one bar, that used to have 2 separate sections, separated by the bar. You could smoke in one side, but not the other. NOW THAT WAS FAIR TO ALL.
3 people like this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
13 May 09
Yes, I agree with you, my friend. This landlady has admitted that it's really helped her pub to exploit the loophole, and I salute her in taking such a brave stand against the ban. Our local landlord has put decking in the back of the pub garden, with a huge umbrella over it, rustic tables and chairs, and I thought "Wow... great... somewhere for the smokers to sit, but then, a week later, he slapped on "No Smoking" signs, and the smokers are left out in the colder part of the garden again without any real shelter from the elements. So, when the weather's bad, I just don't use the pub... his loss!
I think pubs should be allowed both a smoking and a non-smoking bar. Second hand smoke from several yards away is NOT harmful... in fact, I'm not so sure that it is close up but there ya go! Both our countries are supposed to have freedom of choice, and I wish to exercise mine. There's nothing wrong in that... I think we've been given a rough deal, my friend, and kudos to anybody who stands up to the suppression!
Thank you for your contribution and Brightest Blessings.
2 people like this
@AnnieOakley1 (5596)
• Canada
13 May 09
Even as a smoker myself, I do agree that 2nd hand smoke, up close or in an enclosed space, is harmful. Since, my hubby and I do not sleep in the same room anymore and that is one of the reasons. He lights up in the middle of the night, and it causes me to wake up coughing uncontrollably. Like a bear, and I am ready to bite his head off. And I sleep like a log. Once I'm down, I'm usually down for the night. But that wakes me up. And boy am I a bear without enough sleep or if it is disturbed through the night.
2 people like this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
15 May 09
Ok... well, let's assume that we're right to believe up-close second hand smoke is harmful. Then, why is it that non-smokers walk up to the bar beside a smoker, and then complain they're blowing smoke in their face. I've never known a smoker who is that inconsiderate but we all have a choice. If a non-smoker doesn't wish to be in that environment, why doesn't he find an alternative space where he can drink without the problem? It's not fair that smokers are barred from enjoying any public venue whatsoever.
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
13 May 09
I do beleive that she has the right idea.
and hope it spreads
We had a vote on the smoke ban here.
and even the pub owners tought that to vote for #5 was going to let the pubs keep smokers coming in.
Seems like 4 and 5 altho wording was different meant the same thing no smoking! in pubs are any where Now they are trying to turn it that smoking in pubs are allowed with the thing that no kids are allowed .
! well no kids are surpose to be in the pubs!
I dont got o them any more but still think smoking should be allowed in them.
Some pubs even went against the law on this and was fined but they still have a sign out smokers welcome!
2 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
16 May 09
Here we hafve alot of just Bars and no one under 21 is to go into them.
these are the ones that should be allowed to have smoking patrons.
as for the restrants I go along with the no smoking because there are kids in there.
and I go outside if I want a smoke.
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
19 May 09
yup ya got that right.
and they was trying to pass a bill here to let people smoke in the bars again and they denied it.
DOnt see anything wrong with smoking in a bar where kids arent welcome and are no suposed to be in amyhow.
This was to start emproving our economy a little bit Just what are they thinking up there in Carson city! Thats aour state capitol.
they are nutso up there.
@Darkwing (21583)
•
15 May 09
Yes, me too Gabs! I would rather take a few minutes to fill in a questionnaire before sitting down to a pint and a ciggy in the pub, than keep having to go out in the cold for a ciggy. She's at least bearing her regulars of time, in mind, which to my way of thinking is the safest way to go. Once you lose your regulars and locals, the game is over, I feel.
What's the operation for and when are you likely to have to undergo this? I'm sorry... I've been run ragged for the past month as end of darts season was arriving and as League Secretary, I had mountains of stats and stuff to sort out. Would you like to send me an e-mail, or rather talk on the phone? I've been a bit remiss of late, with my friends... haven't even been in the Den much, or online, come to that!
Take care, my dear friend and try not to worry too much. Brightest Blessings and thank you for your contribution. Love and hugggggs. xxx
1 person likes this
@sparkofinsanity (20471)
• Regina, Saskatchewan
14 May 09
Oh to be in England where I can enjoy a smoke with my pint! And if I have to fill out a questionnaire first, bring it on. I just love to write about myself! ROFL
2 people like this
@leenie50 (3992)
• United States
13 May 09
Hi Darkwing,
Well, I used to be a smoker. California was the first State I believe to ban smoking first in bars and resturants and then inside any public building. At first I was outraged and believed that many bars would lose their businesses because of it. Well,
that didn't happen. My second husband and I also felt it was an individuals right and felt like we were being punished for being a smoker. The funny thing is we got used to it and eventually quit smoking.
But I happen to agree with you. Individual bar or pub owners should have the right to allow oe disallow smoking in their establishments, and patrons and employees have the right to be their or not!!
Everyday more and more rights are being taken away from us because government wants to control everything. Smoking is the beginning.
leenie
@Bohemian77 (277)
• United States
13 May 09
I'm in the US, and it's gotten worse here. Congratz to her! I hope she keeps it up :) Smokers are being treated horribly, even though there is not one legitimate study that proves second hand smoke is harmful
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
15 May 09
Too true! I've had mention in another response of meat eaters being picked on. What??? As I said to her, since time began we have hunted and eaten meat. It's part of a balanced diet, whether vegetarians agree or not. So, does the non-smoker who lives on junk food realise that they're going to have to share the humiliation of the banned smokers? The world has gone crazy my friend!
@Videogeezer (654)
•
14 May 09
That is such a weird loophole, fair play to the landlady for exploiting it. I feel a lot of pubs will not adobt this move as it does not sound sustainable. I hate having to go outside in the cold when I want a smoke but I do not really go to the pub much now so it is not a major inconvienence for me.
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
13 May 09
I live in the US and there are smoking bans everywhere now. If it does anything for the restaurant trade, it makes certain that smoking customers won't linger and take up space after their meal is done. They are in too much of a hurry to get outside and have a smoke. I do think that not providing at least a sheltered outdoor smoking area is a bit mean of businesses, whether it's for customers or employees. Pubs are a different matter, people go there to linger and lingering usually means more sales for the establishment.
I think the funniest thing I ever read was a quote from an Irish pub owner after the smoking ban went into effect there. He said that some of his customers had been coming in and smoking in his pub for 40 or 50 years. I thought, isn't it funny that these customers have been taking in smoke firsthand for 50 years and they are afraid that the barmaid will succumb just by being in the same building? There are even some laws that prevent a person from smoking within 20 feet of other members of the public. They expect to suffer ill health at 20 feet? The only reasonable conclusion I can come up with is that non-smokers aren't very healthy if they can die of secondhand smoke from 20 feet.
So, I applaud this landlady's exploitation of any loophole she can find to continue serving ALL her customers and allowing them to relax and enjoy themselves, which is basically the reason they are there in the first place.
1 person likes this
@ellie333 (21016)
•
13 May 09
Hi Darkwing, Good for her, at least it is keeping her public house running whereas so many have had to shut down as no trade thesedays. I for one find it quite intimidating walking through a crowd on the pavement outside a pub drinking and smoking rather then them being inside and very rarely go out now, but there are a few pubs in my town that have built a shelter outside but with an open section and put a timer switch for a halogen heater in the colder evenings with tables and chairs and ashtrays available, the pub inside is usually empty but the tables outside tend to all be full. This can only be done though in pubs with the space around them to do it, roll on the long hot summer when all will be outside anyway. Huggles. Ellie :D
1 person likes this
@gitfiddleplayer (10362)
• United States
14 May 09
I think its great that she found it, I'm not a smoker but drinkers and smokers need to do something with both their hands.
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
15 May 09
I am a smoker my friend and I can tell you that it's not so much we need something to do with both our hands, but it's the alienation from others just because we choose to exercise our right to smoke. If non-smokers didn't like that, then they shouldn't choose to come stand up next to us. They say we "blew smoke in their faces".... wrong; I've never seen a smoker do that. It's all been a scam by the government and health board combined, to only release the statistics they think will swing the case, and cover up the rest. I've smoked for between forty and fifty years and neither I, nor any of my pub-going, non-smoking friends, have yet suffered illness or worse from it. Now... I have to stand out in the cold and risk all sorts of illnesses for the sake of a load of heresay. It's ludicrous and I salute this landlady for taking a stand! Publicans are losing money hand over fist, and something has to be done, or the non-smokers will have nowhere to go for a drink!
Brightest Blessings and thank you for your contribution.
Brightest Blessings and thank you for your contribution.
