A Question to All beleivers of all faiths
@freethinkingagent (2501)
May 17, 2009 3:28am CST
Let me pose a question to you. Right now everybody thinks they have a firm grasp on what reality is. But let me ask a couple of questions. What if next week on or about the 25th of May 2009, a news announcement happened, and top scientist of the world announced they have build a time machine. Or that they have found proof of how life on this planet began. Would this effect your faith? Now what if they announced full disclosure that we are not alone in the universe, gave full disclosure of ET's, would this effect your faith? why or why not.
12 people like this
41 responses
@kdmlrys (398)
• United States
17 May 09
There are a lot of "what if's" in this world and I think that's one of the reasons why we keep on searching that very state where we can say that "Yes, I believe in this, I believe on that, anything is possible! Who cares, that's just life! I'll stick where I'm comfortable with!"
If ever there will be a real-life time machine in the future (I really hope so), I hope I'm still alive so I can experience this back to the past journey.
Probably the first place I would like to go is the Garden of Eden, but if the time machine won't function, then it's possible that the Garden of Eden didn't exist in the first place. From there, I would turn to the scientific theory of Big Bang. If I saw and heard the actual explosion and the evolving of gases to planets, moons, and stars, up to the evolving of one particular cell to different species of animals and even human beings, then there's a great chance that my faith and even my outlook in life would change from that point.
And by the way, if ever scientists will prove the existence of extra terrestrials, I don't think it will shake my faith. On the other hand, I think it would be interesting to see some weird looking aliens.
2 people like this
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
17 May 09
We do need to keep an open mind, how ever we do not need to believe everything that seems to be real.
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
17 May 09
Taking anything we experience at face value, freethinking, whether it is something that appears to be fantasy or reality that seems to be tangible, is one of the most risky things that we undertake.
@fizanali (478)
• Pakistan
17 May 09
It won't affect my faith as a Muslim because my faith tells me the universe is full of infinite knowledge and infinite possibilities and even there is a story told in the Quran where a group of people actually time travel few hundred years into the future.
1 person likes this
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
17 May 09
Really! tell me more i have never heard this before, about time travel is it in the Koran?
@fizanali (478)
• Pakistan
18 May 09
Yes out of the 114 Surahs of the Quran one Surah (Surah no. 18 Kahf : The Cave) tells about this incidence when a group of believing young people with their dog run away from their city and hide in a cave where they seek Allah's help. Then after some time when according to them some hours had passed they actually travel few years into the future so that when they go back again the city has completely changed.
There are also other incidences of time travel in Islamic teachings like when the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) went on Mirage (Journey to the heavens) he spent almost 18 years there and when he comes back to Earth only few seconds or minutes had passed.
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
18 May 09
I think I know where you're headed with this, free. I suppose you mean that if scientists find proof that the Creation came about in a way other than we have been taught in the Bible? Well, I don't believe it will ever happen because they have been trying to prove that for a very long time now. I recently watched two versions of the film Inherit The Wind, and it still holds true for me that God created the heavens and the earth. So far as whether or not we are alone in the universe, I really can't say, but if there are others out there they've been doing a darn good job of staying hidden since I first started hearing about them in the early '50s.
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
18 May 09
Sorry, free, but I believe only what I can see. The day that someone trots out an honest-to-goodness being from outer space is the day I'll start believing. (And I don't mean a Photoshopped representation of an alien).
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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18 May 09
I doubt science can utterly destroy the notion that God created the heavens and the earth, at most they can say is How he did it. But for Others out there in the universe, have they stayed hidden? I don't beleive so, The UFO thing really started happening like you said in the late forties and fifties, but history has many records of their visits. Constantine wrote about flying disks that hovered in the sky before one of his battles, one of Egypt's pharaohs also recorded these flaming disks. Perhaps even many of the ancients false gods were nothing more than ET's, or ID's
@commanderxo (1494)
• Canada
17 May 09
This would not affect me in the slightest. As a matter of fact, I'd welcome it.
I for one, truly believe we are not alone. It would seem to me to be a total waste of space otherwise. My "faith", would satisfy me that it be true...and when you get right down to it, a spiritual being that can do the things that we've been "taught to believe" can do; can only be "something/someone" of what I'd call extra-terrestrial. Certainly NOT human.
cdrxo
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
17 May 09
Are IDs sort of like the Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses that knock on our doors from time to time?
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
17 May 09
I believe we are not dealing with ET's. but ID's interdenominational travelers.
1 person likes this
@GADHISUNU (2162)
• India
18 May 09
It doesn't alter my faith one wee bit. Because as it is Hindu Scriptures talk of several Worlds and several Universes. The Universes are not in physical or reachable contact. The worlds within "our" Universe are in other dimensions, and are reachable only through what are called as yogic practices. So, a similar decalration in the Scientific Media would only confirm the received revelation. Even if there are a few differences it can be accounted for by citing individual garbling.
Then there remains the idea of a Time machine and Time travel. Let's say that is possible. The very possibility of time travel itself doesn't shock the tenets or the world-view held. Again the Yoga Sutras talk of ways to go into the past or future. The only discrepancy if at all could be the success of Mankind at "construction" of a physical machine. But even there, the Vedic Texts say whatever is perceivable by the senses or their extensions, come under the pramANa (= standard) called pratyakSha(= sense-perception) and if it contradicts any other higher standard like Inference(Deductive and Inductive) or shruti[The Word] for that matter one could with impunity ( not entailing anything like blasphemy) reject the statement of the shruti even. The contention is that shruti addresses only those aspects of Reality, that are not amenable to the senses.
There is one more side to your question, that has to do with Time Travel.It may be possible that some of the great personalities, who we "believe" had given some of our Scriptural content may not have existed at all! But even that doesn't upset our convictions, because in Hinduism personalities do not matter. We either subscribe to a concept or not. Even by rejecting a concept or a theory, so to say, we do not and cannot bring down the edifice. You could refer to the Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda,published by Ramakrishna Mission, for confirmation on the stance taken by Hinduism on personalities. Historicity of the person referred to an idea, a concept, a theory do not dislodge the concept. Personalities are only conveniences for reference.
In sum there would be no effect of any of the future discoveries. IOW a major part of Hinduism relies on such enquiries and personal conviction than on Faith. But of course Hinduism does say "Faith" simplifies this very search for truth. By not questioning the faith-based ideas one simplifies and/or accelerates one's salvation or liberation. Should one take upon himself/herself to search for the answers using the paths or the methods described, the arrival at the Apprehension of Reality might take several lifetimes.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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18 May 09
You always have a way to cut right to the meat of things. For me nothing can shake my beliefs because my beliefs have nothing to do with what I see, hear or even feel. My beliefs are engraved into my heart, and besides, I beleive this world is but a shadow and we only get from it what we perceive it to be. Thanks for you valued input.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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20 May 09
Please excuse my ignorance, what is an Advaitin?
Also You said ""Faith" simplifies the very serach for truth, By not questioning the faith-based ideas one simplifies and/or accelerates one's salvation or liberation." The problem I have with this is that faith can also blind us of the truth, and truth can be vary from one to another based on culture and preconceptions. How ever Faith can also be what we have diligantly searched for, not being afraid that we may discover those things that unsettle us or go against what we thought we know. Truth can only be found by searching and not acceptance of what is, for what is today can be gone tomorrow. Life is very much like an onion, Some people are satisfied just to look on it, Some will go searching for its end only to give up in tears and frustration from a seemingly never ending layer upon layer of "Truth". Few are willing to take the eternal journey to find both the root and shoot of the onion. And then of course there are those who say it is silly to even think about unraveling the onion. A person who excepts truth by faith has no faith, because he has not burned the truth in his heart by devotion to the truth. It is like saying I know there is a law, but I do not know the law.
BE well
@GADHISUNU (2162)
• India
19 May 09
[I]I believe this world is but a shadow and we only get from it what we perceive it to be.[/I]
Wow, man you sound like an Advaitin yourself! All the best in your quest.
@cbeee3 (2061)
• India
17 May 09
It would not affect my faith one bit.I am a spiritual person.I respect all the people who follow various religions,but on a personal level I don't follow a religion. For me all realms of possibility exist. What we know today can change tomorrow. It takes a lot to prove a theory,but to prove that it is wrong just one instance is enough.So I believe that things and our entire belief system should be flexible enough to accept new truths that are unravelled.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
17 May 09
You are in a good position then, I would only say don't believe anything you might see or hear in the near future.
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
17 May 09
It certainly wouldn't affect my faith. My cognisance of 'God' includes the possibility that there are other intelligent beings in the universe, for one thing, and it also allows for a 'scientific' explanation for the creation of life.
Your mention of 'time travel' is interesting. Most of us have no real concept of time. We see it as a linear thing in which there is a past, present and future and outside of which it is not (at present) possible to be physically. Our reality is always and essentially a 'now'. I am almost certain that the way that 'God' perceives it is entirely different. Position on a line has no particular relevance or meaning to that kind of mind, so 'time travel' is both elementary and supremely unimportant just as, in certain circumstances, it is irrelevant to us whether we are lying, sitting or standing.
Why would any scientific advance or new discovery have any effect on my conviction that there is an intelligent and ordered pattern to this universe; that randomness exists, but that it is filtered and augmented by a supreme consciousness. There is nothing basically wrong with the Creation myths that are given in Genesis: it is merely our modern habit of forgetting the true nature of myth that is at fault.
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
17 May 09
Myths (and 'fairy tales' and all the best children's stories) are the treasure chests that hold the deepest truths in such a way that the casual observer overlooks what's really there, even if the lock appears to be broken.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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17 May 09
Most people equate myth with fairy tale. Myths are a way of conveying truth in a way that hides the inner meaning of the story from the mundane.
@urbandekay (18278)
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18 May 09
Well if they built a time machine that allowed them to travel backwards in time, we would almost certainly know about it already. Since in the countless ages forward of that time, no doubt someone would have used it to visit our time or an earlier time and been discovered.
all the best urban
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
18 May 09
It would not affect my faith. The Bible never mentioned North America nor the Far East - it just called them the Isles of the Gentiles. We know that angels have the power to transport people to heaven and it is no small step to think that they can also take people to other planets. There is the reference about those who are in the air when the Lord comes and that could also mean they might be on another planet. It does not say.
If there were a time machine, I would not be allowed to use it - not a millionaire and never been in the military - and I would wonder how they can get back there and not touch anything. I would be interested in what they found with the usual "I told you so!"
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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18 May 09
Yes you are correct, and it mentions not only in the bible, but in other ancient texts it mentions chariots flying through the air.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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17 May 09
Little green men? No not really, at least not in the way most people would think of them. I do believe there are other beings, but dimensional beings, not beings like Klingon's and Vulcan's lol. I believe that throughout the millenia some of these beings have visited us, some tried to help while others meant to enslave. If you read some the old stories about gods, demons devils and even angels, their appearance and things they could do, vanish and appear in to thin air, to me this would be as if they were able to phase shift between the dimensional realities. If they lived in a plain higher than us, they would be invisable to us, while they could see us. They could become visible to us in our plain and then disappear in a flash into their own dimension. I believe that these are the false gods that Ha-Shim has told us not to worship or put our trust in. So yes, I guess you could say I believe in "little green men", but not in the way most people would believe in.
The Super Collider experiment that they believe can show us the moment when the universe began has one more possibility. It may show parallel universe or at least point to them. If we, our universe is on a sheet of paper, we can not see on the other side of the paper, but we can see shadows when light is passed beneath. This can in one way create a "time machine, for looking into the past, or open a dimensional door way with its massive gravitational field. The gravity created for an instant would be equivalent to a localised black hole, Even though we can not see the other side we can measure its gravity, the same way we do not know what dark mater is we know it is their because we can see its gravity. I think we are all in for a treat very soon.
@Annmac (949)
•
18 May 09
If you believe in the Ambrahamic God then you already believe in ET's. All ET means is Extra Terrestrial (not of this world) God created the earth and the Angels aren't from earth so must be from somewhere outside of this universe.
If man could build a time machine it would be useless! If you went back and changed anything in your life or someone else's then you couldn't return to your present as you may not even be here to invent the machine. lol Our past is what defines us, and if things hadn't happened the way they did we would have had a different 'future'.
Scientists do claim they know how life began but that doesn't prove the existence or non existence of a God. Evolution may be the tool he used or we are all just the product of thousands of little accidents!
None of the above alters my own belief that life must have some purpose and that God or no God, we have only one choice to make in life, live it!
@1hopefulman (45120)
• Canada
18 May 09
Interesting challenge that you pose!
I think it is invevitable that we will one day built a time machine. It's only a matter of time (no pun intented). This will make for interesting exploration. Though we might be able to travel back in time or in the future as observers, will we be able to change events? For that we will have to wait and see. Will that shake my faith in God? No, it will just help me to understand Him better.
How life began and how it was done, is for us to discover. The pieces or evidence is before us. It is for us to figure it out. Again knowing how will not shake my faith, it will only fill me with awe on the wisdom and intelligence and abilities of God.
As far as I know, we are not alone in the univers. We never were! We just need to learn more about the different life forms that exist in the universe. God has made a variety on life forms. Even on the earth, there is such a large variety. We are still discovering new life forms. It wasn't that long ago that we discovered bacterias. This wil only enlarge on God's amazing creative ability.
My faith will just be made stronger by new discoveries! I do not fear them but welcome them!
@bodhisatya (2384)
• India
17 May 09
Faith means complete surrender, if there exists even a shadow of doubt then the faith ain't faith. Whatever religion a man believes in i think every religion preaches its followers to have complete faith and trust on the lord. There is no truth greater than the existence of the lord himself.
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
2 Jul 09
So many encourage us to trust in the Lord but many do not mind telling us what to believe and never question, sounds like they want us to be blind sheep if you ask me
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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20 May 09
Yes mathss, you are rock of faith. Nothing external can change what is with in.
@James72 (26790)
• Australia
17 May 09
It would shake the foundations of many religious doctrines, but even with life on other planets etc, it all had to have been created from or by something! God is omnipotent so why would God be limited to our own world anyway? I don't personally follow a specific religious path or organized faith, so an announcement such as this would not affect my faith at all. If anything, it would strengthen it!
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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17 May 09
It is good you are not so tied down to dogma. Last year even the Vatican announced that the possibility of extraterrestrials would not mean the end of catholicism. Soon we shall find out how strong some peoples faith is.
1 person likes this
@Aurone (4755)
• United States
17 May 09
Don't think it would bother my faith. I am not a Christian, but its hard for me to believe something with the power to create life as we know it would only do it once. Seems kind of vain to me. And as for how life begin, well who is to say that some deity didn't create it whatever way it is found to have started? I am lucky in that my faith and my education can live in separate parts of my brain and not bother each other. I always think science has found what it has found because the Goddess planned the rules to be that way. I have never thought faith and science to be mutually exclusive. I know exactly 1 atheist, and I have a biology Masters degree and every biologist I have ever met had some sort of faith, whether it was agnostic, Catholic, Mormon, Hindu, you name it I know one of that faith, and I am the token pagan. We have beliefin our faith and in our science too--in fact I pray every night and observe the holidays for my faith and I teach evolution in my classes. And some would find it hard to believe that those things could coincide together, but in me they do.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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17 May 09
Thank you for responding. You seem very open minded. I believe very soon, days maybe peoples idea of what the universe is will be shattered. We shall see.
• United States
22 May 09
I'm feeling vibrational change under my house...the yard...almost everywhere.
It's been building for years...
The best printed commentary on all this, the future and your place in it can be found in The Urantia Book.
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
23 May 09
I would know the invention of a time machine to the past was a lie. It's clear man is not ready. God will not allow that until man has wisdom. Aliens from outer space would not bother me at all. I would want to learn their technology but since they are smart enough to get here, they are smart enough not to give man technology. Man is not ready to visit worlds with other beings. Man has alot of learning and growing up to do first
@Bloggership (1104)
• Indonesia
11 Jul 09
Me personally, it will breaks my beliefs about GOD things if those time machine scientist proofing that they already seeing the true on how humans exist from the starts was not by GOD creations... Same answers with the ET's existences.
@soulsearchin (81)
• Canada
17 May 09
Hi, I am the kind of person who believes what I was taught as a child that God created the universe (Heaven and Earth too) which would include any ET's on other planets as well. That being said I also believe in the possibility of evelution (sp)and scientific explanations. Beliefs are an important part of life in my opinion it gives us something to hope for when our time comes to leave this life. Everyone believes in something whether it be religion or science or both, there is no right or wrong choice as far as I am concerned as long as people respect each others right to thier beliefs most people can live a peaceful co exsistance.
Where do you believe we go (if anywhere) when we die?
@freethinkingagent (2501)
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17 May 09
Yes, but holding such dogmatic views can backfire. I do hope you will remain strong in your faith.