President Obama @ Notre Dame University, opinions of the controversy, his speech

Beautifully said abkinsey. I wholeheartedly agree. I'm an Obama supporter, but I'm with him on the pro-choice. We all can't always agree on the same things, right? He gives me chills with his speeches.

Yes, abkinsey, you are right that it would probably have been rude for him to turn it down (and I was raised in a similar way to have good manners, so I get you there). I just wished he had not been offered the degree part of it in the first place is all, as it would have toned down the harsh and negative rhetoric from those who opposed him even being there and because I pretty much agree with the stance that ASU took on this (see the quote above in another of my replies from Sharon Keeler, ASU spokeswomen). I always like to find the "middle ground" where you can appease the most amount of people possible and the way ASU handled seemed to me to be the right answer to that. Yes, I also thought his speech was very good, as they almost always are (at least when he has his teleprompter working properly!).

Hi Anniepa, Thanks for your astute comments. You make a potentially valid point that I wouldn't be able to dispute without having more information, namely knowing who ASU has given honorary degrees to in the past that you don't consider very accomplished. I'd love it if you shared that information, as that would help drive your point home even further if you were able to discuss exactly who has gotten such an honor from ASU that you think didn't deserve one. I did find out the reason so many people were arrested at Notre Dame although they didn't expressly do anything worthy of being arrested per se and that was indeed the trespassing issue, as you mentioned. Notre Dame is private property and all you apparently had to do to get arrested is be there when you had no "official business" there. It was their option to exercise the trespassing law, therefore, and so I respect that. If people were on my front lawn ranting and raving about something and angry at me, I'd probably have them arrested too! You're right, of course, that the Catholics are interested in many other issues and certainly some of them are undoubtedly in line with Obama's views, but abortion is just one of THE most controversial issues in this country, so it stands to reason why some at the school would have extremely strong views on this subject, want their voices heard and not be in favor of Obama's visit. Bush didn't get the controversy because he is pro-life. Regarding your "preemptive war" comment about Bush, what I think you have to realize with regard to why there wasn't controversy about the Bush appearance at Notre Dame is because it was in 2001. There was no preemptive war in 2001, therefore no controversy - at least not about that subject.

I'm not sure Notre Dame is going to be harmed in any way, as they have just gotten the most amount of publicity they have gotten in a VERY long time! I agree with another poster here that I don't think he should have flat out refused the honorary degree once it was offered, but that it simply shouldn't have been offered by the school in the first place. However, there is a tradition whereby (generally speaking), commencement speakers are usually offered honorary degrees, so if that is the criteria that Notre Dame employs (that they simply give ALL commencement speakers honorary degrees), well, then it makes sense IF that is the case. Arizona, as I pointed out, did not give him one even though he spoke there. Sharon Keeler, ASU spokeswomen said this to at Associated Press about their decision: "It's our practice to recognize an individual for his body of work, somebody who has been in their position for a long time. His body of work is yet to come. That's why we're not recognizing him with a degree at the beginning of his presidency." I agree with this statement, so even without the abortion controversy that Notre Dame had, ASU seemed to make a pretty sound decision in my view for having him speak, but not giving him the degree. It IS an accomplishment that Obama has become the first Black President of the United States, of course, but he didn't have all that many laurels to rest on before becoming President.

Thanks for your comments, psyche49f, and I bet you are right that there was a division between the decision makers ("insiders" as you put it) on this just like there was from the students. I wonder if they voted on it or what? I'm also wondering if the school was a little too harsh on the protesters like Alan Keyes, who along with about 18 others, was actually arrested. Hmmmm... did they exhibit enough TOLERANCE over at Notre Dame to those who disagreed with the decision? I wasn't there, so can't answer that, but my feeling is that they may not have by the number of arrests. If I'm right, that is indeed sad. As you correctly said, we have to co-exist with those with varied beliefs and opinions.

Notre Dame has had a recent tradition of inviting U.S. Presidents to speak at commencement, so they used this fact to defend their invitation to Obama. Yes, it would make sense to not EXCLUDE Obama from an honorary degree if EVERYONE who EVER speaks at commencement there gets one, but I'm just not sure if that is true or not. Anyone know the answer??

Yes, Kurt Carl, it sure does...