Born as...

Hi Raj, I know your style of thoughts and am an open book. So don't worry when you go against the grains of my views. We can't always be a 'yesman'. I appreciate your stance and will never be bitter about it. Since I am now some where and on borrowed computer I'll just have to go short here. Will be back in a few days and hope to go back on track with mylotting.

Hi zandi, I would rather cut all my veins that bear my root and hurdles me from being a real human and replace with another set of blood and wherever I stay I would proudly say the sky belongs to me and the land is mine. Your feeling honored to be referred to as kadazan Malaysian is contrary to your ideals and it ignites racism and hatred thus. No Offense please.

Hi I felt I was a bit hard on your say. Yes, one is entitled to retain his/her genes and the ancestral root. This is not bad until it wears the face of fanaticism and racism. Actually what I was trying to establish was wherever I am born and brought up and been fed my loyalty should be to it and I would love to tell others that I am so and so and not so and so. I hope you got my point.

Hi Diana, There you are. I can well perceive your feeling for I have placed myself so many times there in your situation and therefore could start this discussion. You feel so and that is the way thing should be but that does not happen with many people. They are born and brought up in say England but their loyalty and committment is towards where their forefathers were born. Is not it disgusting. Besides I am refering to you an an English but your heart and soul is not in England but there with your forfathrs. I have never understood how one could be fostered to have such mentality.

The transition was not easy to accept at first either Rajib. The first years that I was here and would return to UK it would feel like going 'home' even though my home was here. Then there was a trip some years back when I realised I was not sad to leave UK and return 'home' to Italy. I felt guilty for a long time after becoming aware of this feeling but I have reasoned it out and feel that I could not honestly be happy with my feet in two shoes. Once I accepted that I feel more a part of Italy and that it would be much easier and logical to admit it, then the guilt feeling disappeared. I am happy here therefore it is also logical, in my opinion, to admit that I feel more Italian than English now

I hail thine spirit!!! ( a bow would follow ). ( Now serious ) Yes Diana, that is implausible. Your feeling less Italian and more English in the initial stage is normal and natural too. But over the years you have succeeded transforming yourself was what expected and now you are thoroughly an Italian and no longer an English. Ironically many people do not try or wish to feel thus.

Yes, you would be a Canadian and have every right to refer to yourself as such. It's your birthplace! We should however, be respectful of our heritage in my opinion. I have a very close friend who was born in Ontario and lived a good 35 years of his life there. His Mother and Father are Indian and have returned to just outside Delhi in retirement. My friend is a Canadian through and through, but he is forever mindful of his Indian roots and respectful of his heritage. He lives in Australia now as a permanent resident and is seeking citizenship, so he too gets to add another link to the equation now as well!

Hi James, Yours is a precarious situation and on your move from one place to another the question of belongingness does not arise. But as long as you are in Egypt you have to be responsible and loyal towards Egypt for you are amidst the people in there and their well being is your well being. So far your identity is of course Australian as that is the place where your sentiment and emotions are attached with. ell in the example why the suffix is there? can not I be just a Canadian? And nothing to add , nothing to subtract ?

Now there. That friend of your have no right in my view to love either in Canada or Australia. He was born and brought up in Canada and why his mind tilted towards India? Let his parents settle back in India as they are more Indians but this son is a black ship. How closed he is with his root and heritage. why can not we accept the fact that the Earth is my birth place and we all are friends. Ok your heritage question would be valid if that is required in an isolated case but if you are occupied all the while that your are an Indian this would be cheating and is against the ethics.

Sometimes we make the distinction of racial origin to stress on the mixed society in the country. Furthermore due to many mised marriages the features of many Malaysians tend to confuse some people, even among the population. We identify ourselves to a certain race based on the culture practised. The sad thing is currently there are people trying to stir things up by highlighting only parts of certain events and/or parts of certain regulations. Hence the stress on OneMalaysia, whereby the country comes first.

Yes, you are on the dots. This is the vested interested people behind that are not allowing a peaceful amalgamation. Is not this a very sensible issue? Thanks for the add.

Hi rosdimy, Nicely expressed. The same system is there in here too. And you got my point on the generation issue. When this second or third generation the root nationality does not count or should not be counted. Suppose I am an Indian and I am born and brought up in Malaysia and in this case I should be treated as a pure Malaysian without the prefixes for I know not India nor India has done anything to my person and my development. Thank you friend.

Hi Paula! Reading your response makes me feel less guilty. It's not an easy situation to explain to those who have not been through it but your situation is the same as mine and I can see that you feel too that you 'belong' where you have made your roots.

In the first years that I was here I cheered for England but that is not the case now. I cheer for Italy - but that has also something to do with how football has changed over the years and is not entirely due to the fact that I feel more Italian (though Italian players are certainly worth cheering! )

Hi Paula, Yes, I too believe in that concept. Now as you are in Australia and you have been molded and shaped with its culture and language you should think no more of what Italy would have supplied you with. But what about those Italians here in Australia who would throw partis when Italy would emerge vicorious in the soccer championship over Australia? The same question to Diana too that how would she take on the issue that when England beats Italy the Italians ( with English root )cheer for England? Is not it cheating? Thanks Paula.

Hello my friend Rajib Ji, So nice for your frank comments. I understand, but to see evrything from my angel, one has to come longway of my age. It may be causing the difference. Now OBAMA is talking that No America without Muslims. When on ewants to compare something one must consider as Natural. It is by nature that Loyality will remain with mother. I do not say. But what you started that, it should be treated as duty. We may live and take birth anywhere , but our string will never be removed that we are not Indians. It will remain for ever. I do not say, not to be loyal. You are talking about 2nd and 3rd generations, I am giving you example of my own son and others, who go on temporary basis to US, never tolerate anything against that country. It is natural taht we have no choice for having birth at particular place. May God bless You and have a great time.

Hello Jee, Yes that is the case. That your sons do not tolerate anything against America is what I am looking for. Yes the string of Indianess might remain there as we need sometime to go back to the root and there would emerge your son's being Indian. But as long as you are a citizen of a particular country and you have no obligation and responsibility towards that county is something does not get easily digested. Thank you jee.

Hello Jee, I appreciate your views but could go eye to eye on certain points. First thing human being should not be compared to any non human entity. They are amoral beings. But men are different. this is not that people were planted at different places and grew likewise. It was the quest that men began and thus got spread all over and in the process their temperament and body colour too got molded to suit the prevailing climate. Now my point is that if you are in Canada for life long or if you are born and brought up there as the second generation your loyalty and commitment has to be towards that country only. you are no longer an Indian.

amio tai Bangladeshis I think have a huge identity crisis. If you know, the mukti juddha was about liberation from Pakistan because of Bengali identity. at that time there were many Bangladeshis who fought the mukti bahini i.e. they were actually traitors...they wanted to remain with Pakistan and continue with that identity. But I beleive most Bangladeshis want their Bangla identity, as seen with the results of the recent elections. So maybe the immigrants you talk of, still have their hearts and dreams with Pakistan...in any case, the north-east of India has sadly been allowed to become a free for all, esp. for illegal immigrants, and for trouble-mongers.

Hi, You have a valid point but my say was even if my parents are Indian and now settled permanently in Canada would not I be second generation there and should not I feel all Canadian? Or I should be all loyal to India that I have never been to and for me a foreign country. Do you still prescribe me to an Indian? Thanks for the response.

No, You have rather cleared it for others who are confused and went rambling. What you have said is not the case with all. Well, I have been born and brought up in Canada and my heart goes with the well being if this country and India is mere like any other nation for me I am like any native Canadian. Are not I? This way I show my loyalty to this country too. but there are Immigrants from Bangladesh and most of them are treated as Indian but when Pakistan or Bangladesh beat India in Cricket why they cheer for them and not for India? Thanks for the response.

Hi krajibg ... It is good when we have opposing views and can discuss them while maintaining our individual stance. In relaation to your point about ones roots possibly not being God given (if I understood you correctly).... Our roots are most definately God given just as our skin colour, and other physical features are God given. I believe that if we should all leave our birth country (as in the case of my aunt whom you say you agree with), and take on the ways and customs of our adoptive country while forsaking our own natural land of birth, it would be a very sad practice. It is really not practical either. As I mentioned before though we will all respond differently to this situation. Some will hold dearly to the ways and customs of their ancestry, while some not so dearly, but most will in some way or the other adopt some of the practices of their adoptive home. For you a Canadian born Indian the ways and customs of your race may not be of as much significance as to those who left India to seek a better life in another land. There are many many Indians living here in Jamaica. Some adhere to the customs of their homeland and go back and marry the person selected for them but there are those who want nothing more to do with Idia and are quite happy to build their lives else where. That will by no means change the fact that they are Indians and that their offspring(s) will be Indians. Some Indians here are still keen on Hinduism and pass on the practices to their children, while some wouldnt care less if that religion still existed. I have heard of Indians who hate the fact that they are Indians and there are those who are very pround to be Indians. It just depends on how we respond to the situation. I can tell you this much... The interminglingand sharing of cultures between the various races here have added to the richness of the Jamaican culture. During our Independence celebrations aspects of all the individual cultures are highlighted such as dress and ways of preparing food, songs and dances. It is a spendid array of the ways of life of different cultures coming together to make one. If the Indian, Chinese, and all other peoples had come here and forgotten their roots and culture then we would not be able to enjoy all this. The same is the true for the US, Canada and England (just to name three major countries). There is a very rich and thriving Jamaican culture in these countries as well as Indian and Chinese cultures. People in general cant just up and forget their roots. A few ( as in the case of you and my aunt) may choose to do so but difinatly not the majority. My aunt by the way becomes a full fledged jamaican whenever our country features positively and in a big way on the world scene. More like a band waggonist if you ask me. But for me it means that no matter what she says or does... She cant just put her Jamaican roots behind her. My nieces nephews and cousins who were born in the US, Canada and England are all proud of their Jamaican roots even though some have only been here once or twice. They are also very proud of their birth right nationality.

hi tjades, with all respect to your person I would go against your view. What your Aunt is expressing should be the real spirit. The land the air the food wherever you get for survival you have to acknowledge and remain obliged to. About root. What will you do with your root? are they God given links? can not you say your identity as a man only? If i am born in Canada and brought up there my duty should be to feel myself Canadian and not Indian. I appreciate your Jamaican Aunt.

You obviously don't look Canadian or you would be though of as such. You have the Indian characteristics so that is how people percieve you.

Hi celti, This is not an autobiographical account but a hypothesis. Now, well as I was born and brought up there and feel myself out and out a Canadian why would not I be one like others there? My skin colour might differ but I am Canadian and I have no obligation towards India whatsoever. I feel in such case even the native of Canada must recognise my being a Canadian. What say?

Hi reckon, Nicely put. And that should be the actual spirit. Where your heart is the land you belong to. Thanks for the response.

I don't know why it is my friend..I would love for it to be an accpeting world. If it were up to me..we would all belong wherever we laid our heads that night. Take care.

Hi Jen, Why , why, why, all the time we are talking of the root and polluting the world. If you can capitulate the world as a small village why the root? My root is Indian and if I am third and fourth generation in your country why not I belong to that country and let me embrace this as mine? I know not my root nor I am interested in locating my root I am well of there and why do you vex me when even I am working as a Government servant there? Let me belong to please.

Hi Sands, I am fine, thank you. how is you? Yes, that could be the case as naturally human being settled in various parts of the planet and due to climatic reason they develop deferment colour and height and complexion and mentality and all. Now they are in the gene and roots and therefore there is no offence if somebody in the course of our discussion referred me as of Indian descent. And the issue should end there only and you can not treat me as Indian as India is a foreign land for me and Canada is my motherland or whatsoever. Thanks a lot.

Hi loudcry, Its a nice picture of Indian lives you have upheld. But do not you think it all absurd. Now we can not blame them for they were brooded that way but what the new generation doing? I see them not so much different in this case. There is still the root sentiment. But why it it necessary? When you go to the States and settle there procuring citizenship you are now an American citizen and by default you should be all loyal to that country. There if you still cry over your being Indian it would be ridiculous. thanks for the response.

Hi dawn , You are more than complicated now. And samples are to be sent to the lab. lol

Hi Anora, Yours is more complicated and complex case. In such situation when you try to go back to your root or genes which would or should be considered true. With this perspective I had posted that discussion and wanted all who are not 'actually' native of the land but have been there for generation should feel belonging to that land only and if tilted towards his/her original it would be disloyalty. Nice points.

Hi Sis, That is the point. Now here in India we are different on race, caste, creed, language and culture but this does not mean that when I would go abroad I would say I am as Assamese. Or a Tamil. This is the narrowest of all sentiment. We proudly should say 'Indian". As your tail is tied with Bengali background but you as a single and emancipated individual feel belonging to the place where you are and where you had been fed and the culture and system helped you out to grow this much today. In such situation if you carry along the Bengaliness it would mar your self and also the job. And if a Canadian is born and brought up herein India and settled permanently he/she should feel and BE an Indian. He is a cut piece of Canada. Only for lab use his Canadian origine might be looked for. Thanks for the response.

My point is straight. If you are from Bangladesh or any other place and you are second or third generation here in India your loyalty and duty should be towards this country not to where you were born. And you know the immigrants Bangladeshi staying near your house cheering for Pakistan and Bangladesh when they beat India in Cricket. It is your loyalty? Thanks for the response.

Come to the point. the answer is not possible this way.