Is the Confederate Flag...racist?
@revellanotvanella (4033)
United States
July 6, 2009 9:53pm CST
According to my quick Wiki search Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina flags are inspired by the Confederate flag.
Here is a link with image of the Confederate flag (think blue 'crossed suspenders'):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_flag_of_the_US_Confederacy.svg
Maryland is one of my neighboring states and its actually very common to see trucks with Confederate flags going across their back windows as they roar down the road and some even circle around more than once with it very visible, I can't help wondering what statement their trying to make and would rather they keep their flags at home.
Here is what wiki says:
What is now often called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag" (actually a combination of the battle flag's colors with the Second Navy Jack's design), despite its never having historically represented the CSA as a nation, has become a widely recognized symbol of the South. It is also called the "rebel" or "Dixie" flag, and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the First National Flag, which used an entirely different design).
"During the first half of the 20th century the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem."....
Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 5th Marine Regiment). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate General Simon Buckner), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the flag of the United States.[15]
"The use of the flag by soldiers came under investigation after some African-American soldiers filed complaints.[citation needed]. By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare.[16] However, the Confederate flag continues to be flown in an unofficial manner by many soldiers. It was seen many times in Korea, Vietnam, and in the Middle East."
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"Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Some hate groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist groups such as the Neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan.[17] The flag is also sometimes used by separatist organizations such as the Aryan Nations. It is important to note, however, that the official flag of the Ku Klux Klan, as stated by this organization itself, is the flag of the United States of America, not the CSA battle flag...."
But...
"White southerners often see the flag as merely a symbol of southern culture, a 'country music flag' without any political or racial connotation. An example of this would be the Bocephus Rebel Flag often sold at concerts performed by country music star Hank Williams, Jr or Kevin Fowler, heavy metal band Pantera, and southern rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd."
['Flags of the Confederate States of America', wikipedia]
2 people like this
18 responses
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
7 Jul 09
Slavery was a relatively small part of the civil war, it was the catylist, but not the cause. The war was about state's rights, federalism and america's first step towards more dominating central government. Licoln, though touted as the great liberator and champion for racial deceny, was actualy a fairly racist person himself, in fact, he didn't even want slaves remaining in the country. He was also probably one of our more "tyranical" presidents, too loosely use a term.
The Confederate flag became a symbol for the confederate states who banded together and voted for mass cessation and disolving of the contract, considered in breech by the southern states. Lets also not forget, that though the flag is often used by racist groups, it was not it's purpose, much like the shwaztika, original a pagan symbol. Both symbols that have been hijacked.
incidentaly, I'm a "yankee"
1 person likes this
@mrrogers88 (22)
• United States
7 Jul 09
i live in NC and yes, i do believe its a form of racism
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
7 Jul 09
So Black people in the South who have Confederate battle flags are racist?
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
7 Jul 09
We were actually looking into moving there last year, my childrens father went to visit and I did alot of looking around online and I found a forum called Citydata.org and I was really surprised about the many discussions that came up in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina about racism especially given the large population of african americans that live among those states.
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
7 Jul 09
Look, I'm not from the south nor have I ever lived in the south. I don't know if the flag is a symbol of racism. I just know how it makes me feel when I see it and it's not a good feeling. It makes me think of slavery and the KKK and lynchings. It make sme think of Jim Crow laws and seperate drinking fountains and sitting in the back of the bus.
I'm not saying the flag itself is racist. I guess it depends on what kind of feelings it brings forth in each individual. It just gives me bad vibes though. And I think that if anyone displayed a Confederate flag around here they had better be prepared to defend themselves or at the very least be prepared for some very dirty looks from folks.
Another thing, I could see being proud of the flag if the south hadn't lost the war. But they did lose and I don't see why they want to hang on to that flag. Plus it takes me back to a sad time in history when brother fought against brother. I'm just glad that we don't see them around here much.
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@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
7 Jul 09
Im with you , when these people come charging into town with their flags I feel it too
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
15 Jul 09
I understand how you feel and why you feel it. But as a southener I would like to suggest that, as has been stated here, symbols can be hijacked. I would also like to say that what it (rebel flag) means to me, my right to choose for myself, is a good quality for ALL Americans to have.
A side note..I was born in Chicago Ill. I spent a great part of my childhood in the MIssouri Ozarks...and returned there to raise my kids after my divorce. Though I am considered a Yankee by the natives here...lol... my soul is southern. The people here for the most part are not bigoted or racist...if you are a jerk no matter what color you are, you are still a jerk. In other words...they judge you by your character, not your color. BUt in Chicago, when I return there to visit, I am judged and labeled much quicker and more harshly...just for having a southern accent.
Symbols, words and attitudes change over time. :)
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
8 Jul 09
I've never thought of the Confederate flag as racist. It's a symbol of the south. All of the southerners I've known proudly wave that flag for that reason only. It has no significance whatsoever with racism or black slavery.
But, from my own personal experience, I've known of some people who will scream "racism" any chance they get. It got so bad at one point that I had had enough. When I encountered an act of racism, or reverse racism, I screamed racism, too, just because I could... in a way, mocking those who insist that everything is racist.
Racism exists in every culture, every color, every nationality. The problem is that some people "play the race card" when they feel they have nothing else to fall back on, like real facts.
I was born and raised in Maryland. I now live in Virginia. A LOT of folks around here have Confederate flags displayed and I have never heard one of them say that the flag represents the white race. They are simply proud of their southern heritage, not as ancestors of slave owners. It's that simple.
Southern, or Confederate, living was very different than in the north. It still is, actually. It's a much slower paced, easy-going atmosphere. People in the south tend to be more polite, more patient, more friendly. Not all, of course, but the majority are. I live here; I see it every day.
Anyone claiming that the southern flag is symbolic of racism apparently has a lot of hatred inside them that they need to let go. Maybe there are those who display the southern flag and ARE racists, but these are two separate entities. I don't automatically think 'racist' when I see that flag; I think 'southern'.
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
8 Jul 09
I don't have a problem with the flag in particular but I can even FEEL when the goofballs around here are using in a negative way, they roar down the road to make sure their presence is know and I believe theres others who would display it peacefully as a sense of pride like others have mentioned. Still, it bothers me because I don't appreciate when others try to intimidate and I'm very aware there are some very misguided people still under our noses.
I had an incident with my ex where we went to a gas station and we accidently went to the wrong diesel pump for off-road vehicles and it didn't even occur to us it was because we had never even gotten gas from this station before. This guy running the store, about 30, dressed all in black with black sunglasses comes charging at our car and shoves the gas pump out of my exes hand and just starts going off on us! I was confused at first but then we got in this argument with him and I told him nobody like him needs to be running any store if that's how he is going to treat his customers. We started threatening to call the cops and he ran back inside and we tried to get our money back because the diesel went all over the side of our vehicle. The guy had the nerve, when the customers were out of the store, to pull up his sleeves and they were just COVERED in Swasticka's!!! I was HEATED!!!
I guess that's why the abuse of this flag bothers me so much.
@mentalward (14690)
• United States
8 Jul 09
It's no different than when people abuse Christianity by swearing up one side and down the other that they're such good Christians, yet they do most of what the Ten Commandments say not to do or don't do what it tells them to do. Oh, and those KKK members who swear they're Christians... yeah, right. Idiots, the lot of them! Everyone can see their ignorance but them. It's really pitiful.
I was threatened by the KKK once. Yeah, me, a little bitty white gal! And I'm not even Jewish! It was because my best friend is black and I had KKK members living across the street from me at the time. (I never noticed them displaying the Confederate flag, though.)
What friggin morons!
@coolcoder (2018)
• United States
8 Jul 09
I'm a Southerner; I love the Confederate flag. Contrary to what some people think this flag represents, I must respectfully disagree with their opinion. It was sectionalism, not slavery, which was the major cause of the Civil War. Yes, slavery had something to do with it, but it was not the biggest factor.
1 person likes this
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
8 Jul 09
Yes, slavery had something to do with it, but it was not the biggest factor.
????
@foursox212 (282)
• United States
7 Jul 09
Not to sound racist here but it's getting to the point in this country can the White people have and do anything without blacks, hispanics, indians, muslims, ect getting offended and crying foul??? I'm mean these groups have sometimes a better oppurtunities to get college education, Jobs, ect. Just look at the supreme court nominee for Obama and durring Bush years, whites need not apply!!
No matter a persons interpertation of the rebel flag many of lives were lost over that and I see nothing wrong with it. I live in Southern Pa and see more of those flags on houses and vehicles more then in Maryland and WV.
1 person likes this
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
7 Jul 09
Its called the freedom of speech. Not just shut up.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
7 Jul 09
That's as much a point of contention as the Civil War itself (or the War of Northern Aggression as some of my friends in the South put it). The fact is, both sides make very compelling arguments.
The Civil War is said to have been about slavery, yet none of the events that triggered the war have anything to do with slavery at all. The same goes for arguments about whether the CSA Battle Flag is racist or not.
The image on the flag does appear in a lot of the Southern State's flags. However, the flag itself wasn't flown over many Southern State buildings until the early 60s. Some say that the flag was put over the state capital of South Carolina in reaction to the Civil Rights act of 1964.. but the flag went up in 1962.
White Supremist groups have adopted the flag, but just because some racists use it doesn't mean the flag itself is racist.
Like most symbols, the meaning is in the eye of the beholder. The CSA wasn't created because of slavery, most Southerners didn't fight for the CSA to preserve slavery and I haven't seen any reason to think that the members of Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Allman Brothers or any of the bands you mentioned are racist.
If we are going to equate the CSA with racism, then can we assume that naming Fort Lee, Fort Bragg.. or any other US Military installation named after a CSA officer is a sign of racism?
1 person likes this
@revellanotvanella (4033)
• United States
7 Jul 09
that's the interesting part, I didn't know very much about the history behind the flag until now and when I would see it I'd feel a sense of confusion and bad feelings associated with it probably because of misuses of it I've seen here and there and I have seen Willie Nelson use it a lot but that man is the greatest hippie in the world, he is just awesome and I never felt ill will from him and can appreciate the mans pride--he lives that life to the fullest. I think you can tell which way someone is using it.
@spicysweetie21 (2573)
• United States
7 Jul 09
I think this is a tricky symbol that can be used as to either just show southern pride, but it can also be used by racists. In my own life, I have seen it in both cases. I know a guy who is a great person and loves everyone, and he lived all over the south when he was growing up, so he has it on his truck because he is proud of his background and how it is different from the "west coast" mentality.
I have also seen it used in a negative and racist way by people too, I knew a woman when I was little who had a confederate flag hanging from her house and she and no one she knew was from the south, but when my brother came around her house, she would yell at him and call him derogatory names because he is half black.
So it really depends on the circumstance in which the flag is being displayed, but I will add that when I first met the great guy who had a confederate flag on his truck, because of my past experience, I did first think that he must be racist too... I learned differently but I can still totally understand why many people are very wary about the confederate flag. I can understand both sides.
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@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
7 Jul 09
The Civil War involved more than just slavery, but it was one of the major motivating factors in the secession of southern states. That the CSA has come to represent a battle flag gives it that connection with the war and as a result, with slavery.
Although I am willing to believe that many in the south see it as simply a symbol of the southern culture and way of life, they must also be sensitive to what it may represent to African Americans.
In any case of conscience it is best to err on the side of being considerate of the feelings of the person most likely to be injured by any action. If flying the flag caused emotional injury or harm to a particular group, or was viewed as being hostile to a particular group, I myself would avoid it.
That is not to say that everyone who flies the Confederate flag does so with malice, I am sure they do not. To some it represents their home and their way of life. But I would say that probably most African Americans would be distressed by what it represents to them.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
15 Jul 09
I would have to agree with you the most on this subject Rollo1.
The civil war was about states having the right to determine their own laws instead of strong federal control. It just so happened that the law was in dispute was that allowed slavery. If it was just about slavery alone...the emmancipation proclamation would have ended the conflict. We must remember that NOT ALL southeners were for keeping slavery and it's evils. To pigeon hole southeners as bigots and racists is just as bad as to stereotype blacks and other groups. I am remembering the book...To Kill a Mockingbird, where a small town southern lawyer defends a black man against a false charge of rape. Many southeners despised the institution of slavery and helped in the underground railroad.
I see the rebel flag as a statement of individual self determination (rebel) ...which is a strong factor in the southern culture and especially when used by those in the biker culture and music industry.
I do agree with you though that for some it might be taken as a statement of acceptance of slavery and all the evils that go with that institution. Therefore it should not be used by government institutions or in a manner that suggests racism or bigotry.
@Carolyn63 (1403)
• United States
7 Jul 09
The answer is quite simple. That is up to the individual. As a citizen of Alabama I see quite a bit of racism sadly. I grew up in Texas and saw it too, however, it was more against the Mexicans there. Here, it is against both. My husband grew up here. He went to school with children of all races and some liked that flag for it's history, some chose to see it as racist, but it wasn't always because of what color they were. We actually have a choice as to how we veiw things. We can choose to make anything, including the word chocolate into a racist word. You can try to blame a specific item as being racist all you want. The truth is the person is what determines how they see things. The confederate flag is both. Not because it's meant that way.
@renemouche (843)
• United States
7 Jul 09
I see both sides. On the one hand the flag does represent why the south left the union in the first place, which was to hold onto there way of live, which included slavery. On the other hand it can be seen as a symbol of southern history and pride. I believe that it all depends on the context the flag is used in. I have afriend from college that is from and lives Georgia and he has a sticker on the flag on his truck but he is not racist if fact my friends brother and sister are married to people outside there race. Its just a deep south thing to him and his family,its apart of their states history.Then you have groups like the KKK and Neo-Nazis that use this flag as apart of there group and they are hate groups. They use it as a symbol to invoke fear.
The flag was not intended as a symbol of racism or haterd, it was the symbol of a new county, the Confederate State of America. The Union had its flag and they had theres, but because of how and why the civil war started the flag has been linked and has become to some a symbol of hatered and slavery.
It doesn't offend me when I see people having it on there cars or what-not cause I dont know those people,I dont know there intentions are what is in there hearts all I know is not everyone who flys that flag sees it as a symbol of hate.
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@NefariousFox (161)
• United States
8 Jul 09
The confederate flag is the symbol of when the southern half of the country decided to wage war against the northern half of the country, and were in fact willing to sacrifice the lives of men, because they believed that people of a different skin color should be bought and sold.
Racist? Perhaps.
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@OpinionatedLady (5965)
• United States
7 Jul 09
We do not live in the south but the does still fly here and there. What some people need to remember was that the Confederate flag stood for more then slavery and bad laws. There where confederates in all states who did not approve of many things done by the American government such as taxes, (some things never change), the pardoning of pirates, as well as laws that took certain freedoms away from the people. Yes there where many who used the flag later for their own racist out cries. Hang the people not the flag. Too many people focus on silly things like flags instead of dealing with big issues such as unemployment, our taxes now and the fact that our nation voted in a black man. He has the power, many white people voted for him. Racism is dieing, and will continue to do so as long as people step back think before speaking.
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@entrypage (1)
• United States
7 Jul 09
The flag isn't racist at all. The flag itself is the flag of a former nation, not of a hate group. Nearly every nation's flag should be considered racist if the CSA's flag is.
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@spalladino (17891)
• United States
7 Jul 09
I live in Florida and have to agree with the statement that many in the south see the confederate flag as nothing more than a symbol of southern pride. It's very common down here. We have a confederate flag as well as a standard American flag flying at our motorcycle shop.
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@PeacefulWmn9 (10420)
• United States
7 Jul 09
Hello. If my understanding and reading of history is correct, a big part of southern culture DID revolve around slavery, which was one of the main things they ceded to hold onto...the slavery. In that respect, I can see how still flying the confederate flag could be construed as rascist and unpatriotic. But I am not in a position to "judge" individuals on this. I do, however, abhor racism.
Karen
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@monicabarr (4)
• United States
7 Jul 09
I'm not so sure that the object or image of and in itself is necessarily racist, but perhaps it's been misused to represent the ideal so often (often out of ignorance), that generally people identify the flag with racism. . .
Perhaps it just became the symbol of negativity in the public eye. . . but hey, what do I know?
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@mythociate (21432)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
31 Jul 15
So short answer (if you're talking about the flag I THINK you're talking about, and not -about the flag which is "never having historically represented the CSA as a nation"): Yes, that is a racist flag.
It makes me sick; these Southerners (of the United States) claiming 'Southern Pride' keeps them 'waving that flag,' when it's NOT EVEN THE WHOLE FLAG! But I...