IF Obama is removed from office...
By jonakyl
@jonakyl (493)
United States
July 16, 2009 11:01am CST
Everyone is saying that if he is found to be ineligible that every law he has signed, every executive order will become null and void. Where are you getting this information from? I can understand you may want that to happen, but what is the basis of those comments? Does it state such a thing in the Constitution? Those laws and executive orders were signed by the President, eligible or not he was sworn in as the President. I do believe that everything he signed would become contested, but I have no doubt that as soon as Biden is sworn in that he will re-sign every law and every executive order that was done by Obama. So my first question is: What is the legal basis for you saying everything he signed would be null and void?
My second question is about having another election. If Obama is removed from office, then Biden (the rightfully elected Vice-President) would become President. It's part of the job of the Vice-President, to take over if the President can no longer fulfill his duties. Biden is not going to be found ineligible just because his running mate was. If Obama is removed, Biden will immediately be sworn in as President, as he legally should, as he was elected by the people to do. I'm not saying he won't be impeached after he is President if they can prove he knew about it, but I doubt that will happen (just try to recall Reagan and the Iran/Contra scandal) So my second question is: What is the legal basis for saying that Biden would be ineligible too?
Finally I know this has been a touchy subject, mostly from people who don't like Obama. I don't care for his policies at all, and if he violated the laws of the Constitution, he should be removed from office. Which leads me to my final question: If Obama is found to be a legal citizen by the courts, whether or not they show you a birth certificate, will you finally accept that he is legally the President?
On a side note, I just want to say that I think it's sad that everyone who supports the Constitution and uses it as a means to say all these things about Obama seem to ignore that the Constitution also has a little concept of 'innocent until proven guilty.' I didn't vote for Obama, I won't vote for him in 3 1/2 years (unless his policies drastically change), but until 'proven guilty', his is our legal president.
2 people like this
5 responses
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
16 Jul 09
Okay, I am going to try to be logical in my reply. It's going to be a little weird for me, so be patient.
Obama supplied for his proof of citizenship, a short-from Certification of Live Birth from the state of Hawaii. The reason that some question this as absolute proof is because it doesn't necessarily confirm the birth in Hawaii, it may be obtained through a family member who requests one with no proof required other than the say-so of the relative, ar any time up until the child is one year of age. An interesting fact is that the late Sun Yat Sen, who was born in China, obtained a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth in the same manner and used it to become a naturalized American citizen.
Why hasn't Obama offered any other proof? Simply because no one has asked for it. There are millions who want to see it, but no one with the force of law to back up the request. Until a court of law demands it, we will see no further proof. It remains to be seen if any of the cases filed will get to this stage.
As to whether laws will become null and void:
The Constitution provides that laws will be voted upon by the House and Senate, and having passed both houses will be sent to the President who then has ten days to sign the bill or veto it and return it to Congress for amendment. If he does not sign the law or veto it within ten days, it becomes law. Not signing a bill is a way that a president can express disapproval without going so far as to veto it. It becomes law anyway, but without his approval.
If Obama were not legally the president, it is possible that, the ten days having passed without a valid presidential signature, the bills would become law anyway. However, if he were not legally invested with presidential power, no veto would have any effect and those decisions may be reversed.
As to whether he is a legal president if he is not a citizen:
Regardless of having been sworn in, if he was not eligible to be president, then there is no legality conferred upon him by the swearing-in ceremony. No one has the authority to swear in someone who does not meet eligibility requirements.
If he is legally eligible to be president, then he is our president.
Is he the legal president? We don't know.
2 people like this
@jonakyl (493)
• United States
16 Jul 09
Thank you for your comments. I've never considered the fact that his signature isn't even required for them to become laws. Very interesting point.
I think there is still a lot of opinion, disagreement over whether or not he would be the legal president between January 20th and the date he is removed. I'm not a constitutional law expert so I can't say for sure, but I'm very interested in how it will play out. I believe that right now his the president, legally speaking. Whether or not he is eligible or not is up to the courts to decide at this point. The problem is that the Constitution says he should never have been elected if he wasn't eligible, but I don't believe it says how to handle it if he gets elected anyways.
1 person likes this
@pixeltwistr (613)
• United States
16 Jul 09
I dont think he will be removed from office.....people say a lot of things but that is just talk...if he were not a citizen that would have been discovered before the election....its not that hard to prove wether someone is a citizen or not and they are thouroghly checked out when they decide to run i think...anyway..i think he is a citizen but of couse i cant prove that either..lol
As for voting for him...well I did...he wasnt my first choice but little by little everyone dropped out of the race and all that was left was McCain/palin and Obama/biden...i dont hate obama but had clinton been up against him i would have voted for her...but she wasnt and fo myself i just could not vote for mccain....so i was glad obama was elected and i had high hopes that he would try to do the things he said he would.....he hasnt had anywhere near enough time to fix the mess he inherited but peolpe are so impatient...they want everything NOW....so i figured he start getting some critisism early in the game....unfortunately he has done some things that are iffy at best and definately cause to start paying real close attention.....but i dont think he will be removed from office....in the event that he was thugh you are correct biden would be sworn in...i cant think of any scenario where obama gets thrown out and we have a new election....that just isnt the way it is set up.....when we voted for obama we also voted for biden to take that office if obama is out for any reason...
and i agree with you...regardless of wether you voted for him or not he is now the president and we need to come together as a country and accept him and stand behind him unless or until he is ousted...
1 person likes this
@pixeltwistr (613)
• United States
16 Jul 09
opps i forgot...
The laws he has passed so far would NOT bereversed simply because he was ousted....thats rediculous....whomever stepped into that office (in this case biden) would have to go through them all and overturn them same as obama has been doing with the stuff bush signed into law .....
We dont just get to call do over and pretend it never happened...lol
1 person likes this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
16 Jul 09
Well, I don't think that he was throughly checked out before he ran. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
1 person likes this
@jonakyl (493)
• United States
16 Jul 09
pixel- thank you for your comments. I don't hate Obama either, but I do disagree with his policies. Regardless of how I feel though, he is legally the President until proven otherwise or voted out in 3 1/2 years.
pia- you stated you disagreed with pixel on whether or not there was enough research done on his eligibility, would you care to comment on the questions I posted? I'm interested in your opinion as you appear to be one of those who really dislike Obama.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
16 Jul 09
If Obama was never eligible to be president then he doesn't have the authority to sign bills into law or executive orders. It would literally be the same as if you signed them.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
17 Jul 09
If Obama never met the Constitutional criteria for eligibility, then he has no Constitutional authority to act in the capacity of president. Hence, he had no right to run, win or be sworn in... so yes, it would literally be the same as if you signed the bills and executive orders.
If it is proven that he is eligible, then of course I have no problem with him being president. I don't support his politics or most of his actions since taking office, but that has nothing to do with his legitimacy.
No, if Obama isn't the legitimate president then Biden couldn't become president because Obama wouldn't have had the authority to choose Biden as a running mate.
Unless it could be proven that she was part of the conspiracy, then Nancy Pelosi would be the next president. If she was part of it, then President pro tempore of the Senate Robert Byrd would be next in line.
@twoey68 (13627)
• United States
17 Jul 09
If I'm understanding this right, you want legal points to prove that 0bama is not eligible. That's relatively simple. Legally it is up to the committee of whichever side to vet their canadates. Meaning that the democratic committee legally was supposed to vet (or make sure) of his eligibility...they didn't. They slid him through b/c that's who they wanted in office. Actually he never established that he was eligible to be Senator in Illinois either.
The reason there is so much demand, and yes ppl have filed lawsuits to demand that he show his birth certificate, is b/c legally the Constitution states that you must be a US citizen. At this point there is more evidence that 0bama isn't than there is that he is.
Honestly, I don't like him but if he is legally the President and he proves that he is eligible to be President then I'll have to live with it but otherwise he, his wife and the democratic committee have committed a fraud against our country and need to be held accountable.
As far as the legal aspects of any laws or contracts he's signed, if he's found ineligible, anything he's signed would be null and void b/c it was signed under fraudulent means. Any he didn't actually sign would be up in the air. As to who would be in charge, Biden would be put in charge temporarily until a special election could be held to vote in a new president...unless he was charged as part of the fraud team. A huge mess in a nutshell and I think 0bama is counting on that to keep himself in office.
[b]~~AT PEACE WITHIN~~
**STAND STRONG IN YOUR BELIEFS**[/b]
@twoey68 (13627)
• United States
17 Jul 09
Well, the problem is with the thought that Biden was rightfully elected. IF it's proven that 0bama was not eligible to run for President then it logically follows that he couldn't have picked Biden as a running mate...whether he knew about the fraud or not, he still wouldn't qualify as Vice President b/c he was picked by a President that was ineligible.
Now, to take it a step further, let's look at Hillary Clinton. She gave up her Senate seat to take the position that 0bama offered her. IF he's proven ineligible, she too would not have that position simply b/c 0bama would not have had the authority to appoint her to it. That goes for all the others that he's hand selected and put in positions.
That's what I was partly referring to when I said it was a can of worms. IF he's proven ineligible then that means that EVERYTHING he's done, EVERYONE he's put in is null and void. The only option there would be is for Congress to temporarily place someone in the position of President to complete the four year term or to hold a special election. They can't just leave the country with no President and I'm not sure how far down the line they'd have to go to find someone that either didn't know about the fraud or wasn't put in by 0bama.
[b]~~AT PEACE WITHIN~~
**STAND STRONG AND TRUST IN GOD**[/b]
@jonakyl (493)
• United States
17 Jul 09
Where in the Constitution does it say that the Vice-President has to be selected by an eligible Presidential nominee? The Democratic Party put Biden on the ticket to represent their party for the Vice-Presidency. We don't know who would have been selected to run as Vice-President if Obama wasn't the nominee. But we do know that Biden was rightfully elected as Vice-President.
If people didn't want Biden as their Vice-President, they could have voted for someone else, but they didn't.
Biden would become the President. I fully believe an impeachment trial would begin, but they can't prove what he knew. They may find out that he questioned it, but they can't prove he knew it. There wouldn't be a special election. We don't have do-overs. Even if you were right and they threw out both Obama and Biden, the Pelosi would be the next person in line and she would legally become the next President. She would then have to deal with resigning the laws that Obama had done, possibly even getting legislation to make them retroactive. Sorry bud, no way will there be a special election. It will be Biden, or in worst case Pelosi.
@jonakyl (493)
• United States
17 Jul 09
Thank you for your comments. I doubt there will be a special election though. Biden was rightfully elected as Vice-President and will rightfully assume the office of President if Obama can no longer fulfill his duties. What is your basis for believing there will be a special election? Biden was not elected under false pretenses. Granted after Biden assumes office there may be talk of impeachment against him, but I doubt they can prove he really knew without a doubt the status of Obama's birth.
