Oh those Republicans certainly try dont they?

"I for one am all for a solution that fixes the problem we have with health care" Ok, lets start there. What is it YOU see as the problems we have with healthcare? I will agree we have problems, that was never in question for me. I agree we COULD have a solution to cover the number of people who do not have coverage AND want it, that was never in question for me. Though the "50 million" number is absolute bunk. It appears to me, from your critisism of the republican plan, you want to see a solution that sets up a plan that pays in full for everyone who can't afford it, what ever way you define "can't afford it". (how do you define that anyway?). So, I guess my basic questions to you are: a.) What are the specific problems in our current system of coverage? b.) What specifics in the considered plan adress those problems and how? c.) Who should be covered under this? (what defines "needing" coverage) d.) What should those being covered pay for said coverage? e.) How do we pay for this as a country?

Dude... You just don't get it. First off, you haven't linked to anything so I don't know where your information is coming from. I'm going to assume it's the McCain plan you're referring to so I'll go from there. Under McCain's plan people would get a refundable tax credit as you described so they can CHOOSE their own health insurance. Those recieving health insurance through their employer would have the employer paid benefits taxed to cover the costs. Now, Obama REAMED McCain for wanting to tax employer paid benefits, but guess what? He wants to do THE EXACT SAME THING! The big difference is, through Obama you get NO TAX CREDIT AND NO CHOICE. Also, where as McCain's plan could theoretically generate enough money to cover the tax credits, Obama's plan won't even come close to bringing in the revenue necessary to fund his ridiculous government power grab. "they want to force those who are insured through work to take a crappier plan so that the poor who are uninsured can themselves buy a crappy plan for a little while" Again, I'm assuming your talking about McCain's plan which doesn't "force" anything other than the tax on employer paid benefits. With their tax credit they could continue their existing plan or CHOOSE another. The poor people would likewise have the choice to continue with no insurance or take the tax credit and buy insurance which may be crappy, but is still better than nothing. Obama's plan costs more than 3 TIMES as much just to start, does NOTHING for those with insurance, forces them to pay more taxes, could force them to take a crappy government plan, and could limit their care or increase the wait for important surgeries, and will still leave millions without any health insurance. That's not even getting into the fact that the democrats don't even care to read the bill. Rep Conyers said in no uncertain terms that it's ridiculous to expect him as a House Rep to READ a bill before voting for it. That could take up to TWO DAYS! Pathetic.

Is must be a joke, you are actually criticism the GOP plan because as you say they are throwing money at it. So when Democrats throw money at a problem that is okay as long as Democrats are doing it. Out of the mouth of Democrats, we need to spend a trillion dollars, and here is the kicker, that is just a down payment. So the GOP plan will cost, by your own numbers 300 billion dollars, but the Democrats plan will cost $1,000,000,000,000 just to get it started. Lets compare GOP plan- $300,000,000,000 DEM plan- $1,000,000,000,000+ because we just do not know how much more they will need. Talk about throwing money at the problem!

Health care is really a good thing. I think everything should be leveled out though. A lot of people in the US don't have health care.The republicans should come up with a better idea. Why say No to universal health care? I don't think that is right. The government should make a better plan out of all this.

"So in order to get the 50 million people currently uninsured health coverage, they want to force those who are insured through work to take a crappier plan so that the poor who are uninsured can themselves buy a crappy plan for a little while" Under the Dems' plan, in order to get the 50 million uninsured people some health insurance, you are going to make the 180 million insured people take a plan they may not want and pay for all of it. One of the provisions in the plan does allow you to keep your in-force health insurance - for the FIRST YEAR. After that, the health insurance company you are insured with is not allowed to enroll any new members nor renew your plan. They will only be allowed to do this once they have submitted themselves to the authority of the federal government. Eventually, government restrictions and regulation will make it impossible for them to compete with the government-sponsored option. There are people out there who don't really think that running private businesses, whether it be automakers or health insurance companies, is the business of the federal government. We may also believe that driving businesses out of business is not the way to a healthier economy. There are cheaper ways to get uninsured people insured if that is the real goal. But it doesn't appear to be.

Okay, Phil, let's at least get the numbers straight! First of all what Obama and congress call 50 million is actually around 45.6 million by census reports and of that 45.6 million over 9.7 million are not American citizens for one reason or another but still not citizens. Am I wrong for not wanting to pay for these non-citizen's healthcare? Do you think if I moved to Mexico City and Mexico somehow came up with a universal healthcare plan for it's citizens, do you honestly believe they would let me partake? Oh, before I forget, here is a link to the facts about the numbers I just stated: http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=50288 Here are some more myths refuted by facts from the Business and Media Institute. [i]Myth: The 40 million to 50 million uninsured cannot afford health insurance. Fact: More than 17 million of the uninsured make at least $50,000 per year (the median household income of $50,233) – 8.4 million make $50,000 to $74,999 per year and 9.1 million make $75,000 or higher. Two economists working at the National Bureau of Economic Research concluded that 25 to 75 percent of those who do not purchase health insurance coverage “could afford to do so.” Myth: The 40 million to 50 million uninsured do not get health care. Fact: The National Center for Policy Analysis estimates that uninsured people get about $1,500 of free health care per year, or $6,000 per family of four. Fact: An Urban Institute study found that 25 percent of the uninsured already qualify for government health insurance programs. Myth: People will remain uninsured without government assistance. Fact: The Congressional Budget Office says that 45 percent of the uninsured will be insured within four months. CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin also said that the frequent claim of 40+ million Americans lacking insurance is an “incomplete and potentially misleading picture of the uninsured population.” Fact: Liberal non-profit Kaiser Family Foundation put the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 8.2 million and 13.9 million. (The 8.2 million figure includes only those uninsured for two years or more.) Fact: CBO analysis found that 36 million people would remain uninsured even if the Senate’s $1.6 trillion health care plan is passed.[/i] And here is the link to this entire article: http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20090623160905.aspx I believe people need to pay close attention to the last fact on the list! Even at the inflated numbers presented by the Obama administration and liberal congress with a little help from their friends the mainstream media, 36 from 50 equals 14. Should we buy into a fiasco costing close to 2 TRILLION dollars for an increase of only 28%?