Was it easier for Jesus to be "sinless" and "perfect" in his time?
By ulalume
@ulalume (713)
United States
July 31, 2009 8:47am CST
Before I begin, let me inform you all in a straightforward way that I am an atheist. However, I do like to think about different religious concepts, and one that recently jumped into my mind is the one concerning Jesus and his "perfect" life. For the record, I do not have some hidden agenda; and I don't really care if you believe in Jesus, Christianity, the bible, or any other religion (and by product of religion). I expect a mature conversation regarding the topic at hand.
First let me direct you to this video as a summary of the Biblical account of God condoning actions we would later see as sinful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6twSN8ZS_VA
-You may find some of what you hear to be "bizzar" or something (even I did, and I am an atheist!); however even I was able enough to open up the Bible itself and check some of these verses for context. Unfortunately, they are all pretty much very contextual. The last one regarding smashing a child's head against rocks disturbed me most, and when I looked it up it really made no sense even in context.
Let me continue...
If these were the guidelines for the time of the Old Testament on how to live, would it not be easier for a man like Jesus to be perfect? These days we see him as perfect relative to New Testament standards (that we live in now, I would presume).
If Jesus is also God, then is he not prone to sin because he would be a part of the Creator of these things? If it is basically acceptable to beat some one to near death, then would it not be easier to live a sinless life like this? If rape is acceptable, slavery is acceptable, beating slaves, children, and others is acceptable; then what is not acceptable? Murder? That is one of the 10 commandments, and it is easy to live without committing murder if one is allowed to beat the hell out of whomever they want.
I am sorry that I can not fully get this issue across in words, but feel free to discuss!
3 people like this
3 responses
@munhozmib (3836)
• Sao Paulo, Brazil
1 Aug 09
Hello there, ulalume.
Your discussion intrigues me. Unfortunately, I cannot watch the video right now, since people are already sleeping and I don't have the sound on.
I have heard, before, about those verses in the Bible, that tell you to smash your child's head into a stone. I have never read it, though, but I have heard that a woman, really faithful to God, did it, since it was written in the Bible.
Yes: the text contained in the Bible is all contextual. You have to adapt them. Perhaps they have another meaning. However, this doesn't make the bible perfect.
This thing of having commandments is really not that useful. It is all a matter of interpretation. What if two boys are playing in a cliff (pardon for the bad example), one slips down, and holds on to the other boy. Both fall. Is that a murder, if he has tried to hold on to his friend and accidentaly brought him down?
The bible gives us the ten commandments. But we are humans, and we have different interpretations. What you may consider robbing is not what I think about the act. Betraying, for me, might be something different than what it means to you.
Back to the topic, Jesus could never be perfect. If he was a human, at some time, he made mistakes like everybody. He could, yes, have been a pure man, trying to be as close to perfection as he could. But nobody can be really perfect. As I said, it is a matter of interpretation.
Respectfully,
Munhozmib.
@ulalume (713)
• United States
1 Aug 09
If at this time God allowed rape, then I do not see what would deny Jesus such a privilege. I could never get any one to explain how Jesus had no lust (if he is "perfect"). The way the Bible explains lust I am sinning basically every moment I am awake (and probably most while I am asleep).
A common atheistic perspective regarding God and the Bible is that of if God really wanted to give us all a set of laws, he should have considered writing a book of laws instead of a short list of 10 (4 of which concern only worshiping him), and making clear issues that people debate to hell today. The Bible is the "word of God", but you can't even understand God's perspective on things like homosexuality, abortion, and similar things.
If the Bible is a matter of interpretation, then every thing it contains must be ethereal.
1 person likes this
@munhozmib (3836)
• Sao Paulo, Brazil
4 Aug 09
Hello, Okki.
Pardon if I said something wrong. I usually make sure I can back up all of my comments, but the truth is I have never read the whole Bible. I have many times began reading the old testament, but what I found was a great mythologic story. I couldn't read until the end, though, and I apologize if I said something wrong.
=D
@okkidokitokki (1736)
• United States
3 Aug 09
There are more than 10 laws, If you read the first 5 books in the old testament you will find over 300 laws and they are very clear about many of the issues you are concerned about. Some of it can be very dry reading but it will help you in your understanding.
1 person likes this
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
1 Aug 09
Hi ulalume! I find this discussion intriguing and thought I would respond based on the religion I was raised in. My b/f is humanist..just for reference purposes..I am not judgmental about anyones beliefs. In the religion I was raised in, Jesus was not perfect. There is a huge gap between when he was born and when he began to lead. He was not considered to be without sin. As far as understanding the bible..well..that's another thing entirely. The thing to keep in mind is that it was written by men. Different men that were called to write about experiences and what they saw to have happened in this time. You know how differently people can see and take things so it can be difficult to understand just what is meant by certain passages. Some are very simple while others are visions from a dream. It's complicated for sure.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
1 Aug 09
I do understand your concern about that. Something to realize as well is that it has been translated from different languages. I speak Spanish as a second language and there are words that do not translate sometimes from English to Spanish and visa versa. You can only get a word that is close in translations sometimes. This could pose misunderstandings as well. It is supposed to be inspired by God but the way it was understood and actually documented may not have been so perfect. I have found that timeframes are an issue when trying to understand as well.
I was raised Baptist.
@ulalume (713)
• United States
1 Aug 09
Thanks for your reply!
What religion would that be specifically?
The flaw regarding the analyzation of the Bible is that you must take into consideration the verses that state that the Bible is "flawless" and "perfect" and no man will be able to change it (or whatever). Additionally, one must take into consideration that the Bible itself is said (through scripture) to be the divine Word of God.
If the Bible is not inspired by God, than the Bible is a useless mythological book (albeit entertaining). I understand that it is written by men, by explain that to a highly religious individual who will insist that it was "written by God through men" as it is implied through the Bible itself.
That is pretty much my concern regarding the Bible .
@mari61960 (4893)
• United States
31 Jul 09
I imagine it was easier for Jesus to be sinless due to the fact that he was a loving leader and healer working toward the greater good. Therefore he was always trying to bring out the best in his fellow men and woman.
What bothers me is people read the bible that really doesn't say what it originally said for one, but they take it literally at the most convenient of times. When it sounds like it should be interpreted differently then they do so. What I get out of it is the fact that 'man' wrote the bible, man created this evil doing god, and his words. The bible is so contradictory I don't see how anyone can believe it as the absolute truth.
I am spiritual not religious, religion is man made, spirit is not.
Who in their right mind would worship a 'god' with such evil tendencies ? Certainly not me. I just don't understand how people can buy this stuff and blindly stumble about life.
Just my humble opinion.
Brightest blessings,
Mari
@ulalume (713)
• United States
1 Aug 09
I agree with you pretty much, except regarding Jesus. If it was easier for Jesus to "be without sin" because he was loving, a healer, and working towards the greater good than I would assume there are other individuals (even today) worthy of being worshiped as some sort of god.
I also agree with the contradictions in the Bible. Err, or perhaps they are not so contradictory considering God himself says in the opening chapter of the book that he is both good and evil. I just like to think that if God is real then he is unworthy of worshiping because he is, frankly, an idiot. If God was a person then most people would hate him.
