Atheism, Agnosticism and Morality
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
August 10, 2009 4:03am CST
Ok, I know you dont' have to believe in life after death to want to have any kind of moral compass. I know that atheists and agnostics aren't anymore out for killing, raping and otherwise pillaging as anyone who does believe there's more something more than this mortal life.
My question is goes more to the meaning of life in general and the decisions we make based on that meaning.
If life begins at birth and ends at death, does anything in between matter at all? Does life have any meaning or purpose at all? It could only hold the meaning the individual wants to give it. Right?
If there is nothing else, then there is nothing wrong with abortion since the fetus isn't living yet anyway. There really isn't much wrong with infanticide, since the baby wouldn't have put any meaning to life yet anyway. Suicide actually would be the ultimate answer to a life not worth living. It would really be inhuman to not be all for euthanasia.
Ok, but those are pretty simple. Death wouldn't hold much meaning because it's just the end of life. It would be completely up to the person to decide if their life was so bad that to cease to exist would be preferable.
But what about things we do that effect life already in progress. If there is no more meaning to life than the meaning a person wants it to have, then what's the difference between being a philanthropist or a criminal? Neither would be good or bad to the person being it. Of course, it might effect how the rest of us feel about the person, but that only matters as much as the person wants it to matter also.
So, let's say that a person decides to twist the "he who dies with the most toys wins" attitude. Let's say he decides, "he who dies having raped the most women wins", or "he who dies having the most happy moments wins". What would be the difference in an existence whose meaning is so void of anything that it's literally according to the person living. If rape brings the rapist happiness, then how is he different than the philanthropist who is only in it to make himself happy?
Both have accomplished the only meaning in this life, and that is whatever the individual decided it was.
Some would say that we have a responsibility to make this world better than we found it. Really? Isn't that just another option in the menu of life meanings? Isn't it just as arbitrary as any other?
If there is nothing before birth, or after death, then science and spirituality are equally wastes of time. Sure, coming up with a cure for some deadly virus would be a noble endeavor, but then again, whose to say the the life of the virus had any more importance than the life of its victim. Wouldn't killing the virus be just as arbitrary as killing the person. Wouldn't it be just as noble saving the life of the virus as saving the life of the human host?
We come up with our moral compass based on what we learn, what we want, and what we can accept. We base our ideals of "good" and "bad" on what we think is important in life. But if life is as meaningless as an arbitrary purpose invented solely for the individual, then "important" is as meaningless a term as "good" and "bad".
Again, I don't mean this to imply that atheists or agnostics are any more or less prone to be "good" or "bad" as anyone else. In fact, some would use their atheism or agnosticism as reasons to be "good", just as the rest of us use our belief system as reasons to be "good".
"Bad" is just what happens when either we fail to live up to our ideal of "good" or someone else does.
2 people like this
3 responses
@Frederick42 (2024)
• Canada
13 Aug 09
Killing or crime in general does not make anybody truly happy.
Remember, all of us are connected to each other. You are a theist and I am an atheist. But I am not superior t you in any way or vice versa.
All of us are so connected to each other that our actions hurt each other. Morality is very important.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
13 Aug 09
I don't know, some of the murderers and rapists I've talked to had friendly gleems in their eyes and natural smiles and laughs as they talked about their crimes. There are many who truly enjoy making life miserable for others.
@mrakobesie (1246)
• United States
12 Aug 09
very interesting discucion, though i must say, i don't fit you view of an atheist. i don't belive in god, but i do belive in soul. there is no hell or haven in my view, but soul has a memory and everything we do stays in the memory for all the reincornations. I must say that as an atheist i'm actualy much more spiritual then most religeous people. I'm vegan for examply, because humans don't have to eat meat to live and there is no reason to take a life in order to feed my own desire to eat meat. I would give the last of my money to help others, i actualy have spent my last few $ on a gift for someone i loved and stayed with no money for a few days, was tough, but the joy i got from making people happy is worth it. To me there is only one god, and that god is love. I worship love, love and only love. Btw, i'm risking to get arested very often because i try to help people even if it's against the law (what can i say, law these days isn't perfect and i don't belive in it ether lol)
People really don't have to belive in god in order to be good and religeous people cn be bad too, it's all about personality and desire to help others.
@taface412 (3175)
• United States
11 Aug 09
This is very thought provoking as a discussion.
And I am not a Bible thumper, but I do believe in God. And I have the belief that an atheist is someone who is lost or without belief.
To me it is simply as you said it is what we have learned. And here is another food for thought even for those who choose not to believe in a diety. What if our ancestors way back in the day chose only to solely believe that there is no purpose to life. What is Columbus had not been one to challenge the belief that the world was flat? What if the cavemen had chose not to invent the wheel or use their brains to invent tools?
There are a lot of what ifs when it comes to the meaning of life. And I do not believe that we are supposed to know now what our true meanings here on Earth are because then that's it. We know. Now what.
I do believe there is a powerful force that drives us within. It's not good nor bad. It is a force that forms our souls from creation and to me that is not the moment we are born that is the moment we are conceived. When the sperm and egg connect it forms a human as a result, nothing else.
The problem with organized religion is people focus on the good vs bad. If we focus on actually living a decent lives for ourselves things are much simpler. If we actually see God as a powerful force that drives humanity there would be less destruction. And as for Jesus he was a real person who lived and made mistakes such as we do now.
There is no magic and that is what most Atheists and Agnostics, IMO, have such a hard time accepting. I agree there are some religious people who actually believe the Devil walks among us. Which would mean there is a God who watches from above kind of like a grand puppeteer. But I don't think that is the case. Otherwise as humans and deities there is a constant power play that does seem unfair and unjust.
We are humans. We are organisms. And like all organisms we evolve. Just like the cavemen, just like columbus we are continually learning more as each generation is born.
Thanks for the deep thoughts.