Rationing and Death Panels ALREADY Exist, Courtesy of the Insurance Companies!!
By anniepa
@anniepa (27955)
United States
August 31, 2009 1:34pm CST
We've been hearing a lot about "death panels", as coined by former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin and health care rationing which would be a sure result of any government health care reform. Respected GOP Senators and Representatives have talked about "pulling the plug on Grandma" and have predicted that "people will die" if any of the health care bills currently being discussed were to pass.
Guess what? IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING, PEOPLE ARE DYING EVERY DAY!!!
Read this touching story about one of the largest insurers in the nation, UnitedHealth:
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20090818/OPINION04/708189965
I won't copy the entire article because it's rather long but here's one especially poignant segment written by Froma Harrop:
"I became convinced that the insurance company was trying to run out the clock on my husband’s life. Had it issued an outright “no,” we would have gone to Deaconess, paid for the care ourselves and fought the insurer later. But it always pretended that a possible “yes” could be around the corner."
The clock eventually did run out on her husband's life.
Here's another interesting article about insurance giant Blue Cross/Blue Shield:
http://www.shernoff.com/practice-areas/Blue-Cross-Blue-Shield-Medical-Insurance.html
Have you ever heard of "insurance rescission"? This is how it works:
"In an effort to avoid paying costly Insurance Claims, Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) practices a particularly loathsome form of insurance bad faith called policy rescission.
Also known as post-claim underwriting, policy rescission is the cancellation of an insurance policy because a policyholder did not disclose, or misrepresented, a material fact on his or her insurance application.
After a significant claim is submitted for payment, BCBS will review the policyholder's original insurance application, searching for any indication that the policyholder misrepresented his or her medical history.
If you failed to mention that you smoked for five years back in the 1980s, BCBS may cancel your insurance policy if you need treatment for lung cancer today."
(End of excerpt)
I've been hearing and reading about how a huge percentage of those who are insured are "very satisfied" with their insurance companies. That's great and I'm glad to know there are so many people who have been basically blessed with pretty good health for themselves and their loved ones! I'm afraid, though, that some of the very same people who are so vocal and adamant now about not wanting health care reform because they're afraid they'll lose this wonderful coverage they have in order to help the less fortunate - and those some of these people consider lazy and irresponsible - also get health insurance may one day find themselves in one of the situations I described above. They may pay for their selfishness by losing their life savings or even their homes or having to file for bankruptcy as has already happened to millions of Americans or they may pay a much bigger price - their lives or those of a beloved spouse or child.
If we don't already have "death panels" and "health rationing" we never will!
Annie
1 person likes this
5 responses
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
1 Sep 09
I think people are satisfied with their insurance COMPARED to wholly government-run insurance, first off. And forget the "you can keep yours" and all that other nonsense. We all know that what you're calling "reform" is what will eventually, when I'm your age, be government-controlled healthcare.
Yes, there are already various rationing systems and panels set up in private insurance. Sporadic cases can be found -- I guess it all goes to what proves your point.
But that's something that needs to be reformed about healthcare, not something that needs to be doubled, tripled or even quadrupled down on!
That's kinda like the argument for spending trillions because we're in debt. Just because it's happening now doesn't mean it's a good idea to increase it.
Nobody ever engages in debate long enough to hear the other person out. The boilerplate hyperbole is all that ever makes it through. People, by and large, simply don't want things to be made worse -- they want actual reform, but the thought of government reform is downright scary.
If private insurance is dropping the ball, wtf can we expect from government-run insurance?
Every person in the world could be covered with the absolute best healthcare plan that man ever conceived. Infinite coverage, the best treatments, second opinions, power to patients, choice of doctors, and the works could be given out. Regardless, people would still die every single day.
For every story, there's one to counter. Again, it's all about what proves a point. I think the point is reform needs to happen. And that reform doesn't have to completely change the entire system that America uses in one swoop. Hasn't anyone ever heard of fixing only what's wrong?
Just because Americans oppose government-run healthcare does not mean they oppose any reform at all. There ARE better ways.
Dang, some people are STRICTLY either-or.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
2 Sep 09
"Nobody ever engages in debate long enough to hear the other person out. The boilerplate hyperbole is all that ever makes it through."
AMEN!! What we've been hearing isn't anything close to a debate. I think the idea of either or both sides encouraging people to go to town hall meetings is great. Encouraging them to go just to drown the other side out and and yell and scream at the lawmaker if he or she is on the other side accomplishes nothing.
You're certainly right that people would still die even if everyone had equal access to the greatest health care in the world. There are still diseases for which there are no cures, there will always be horrible accidents causing injuries that can't be healed and people just die of old age. I'll never stop saying that nobody should die because they couldn't afford the treatment that could save their lives! I'm not saying the entire system has to be changed but I definitely think there needs to be a safety net and something to keep the insurance companies honest. Medicare is actually a great program as far as the choices patients have and doctors having control over what treatments they receive. There are funding and administrative problems which need to be worked on but I don't think that would be impossible to fix. My fear is that those opposed to reform will just do everything in their power to keep anything from being done for purely political reasons and that's wrong. I think it will backfire on them in the long run because most people DO want some kind of reform but that won't help those whose lives may be destroyed or lost in the meantime.
Annie
@iriscot (1289)
• United States
1 Sep 09
I know what you are saying is true annie, many of those people who are satisfied with their present insurance plans are paying very little and enjoy great coverage that is paid for mostly by their employer. I was employed by the city in our small community and had very good coverage that was not only provided by the city.
The city didn't go through an insurance company the city saved money by paying for the doctor and hospital bills out of a fund that they established and continued to fund. They paid a company to monitor, negotiate and pay the bills and charge them back to the city. There was no insurance company involved and they were saving thousands of dollars a year. No agent percentage, no large staff, and no stock holders were paid commissions. The cost per year went up very little compared to what United Health Care was doing by increasing insurance costs by 12 to 15 percent a year. I served on the city committee that worked with this program.
As I understand some of these features will be included in the new optional government plan.
I personally am a cancer patient and had I not obtained a supplemental policy at the exact time that my city insurance lapsed, I would not have been able to buy a supplemental policy. Wisely I contacted a reliable insurance broker and had the policy set to go into effect at that crucial moment in time. I am on social security and medicare, which is a government run program that I am very happy with!
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
2 Sep 09
That sounds like an excellent plan you had through the city. Obviously, when there is no insurance company involved which means no high salaries and outrageous bonuses based on refusing to pay for customers' necessary care, it's bound to be better. It does sound a lot like what the "public option" would be, if it were allowed to be passed. I KNOW the government doesn't do anything perfect. I know there are problems with the administration of Social Security and Medicare but that can be worked on.
The sad thing about the "debate" going on now about health care reform is that it isn't a debate at all. It's understandable that when we hear talk of a huge, "sweeping" change to our health care system there are going to be people with legitimate questions and concerns. Its also obvious everyone isn't going to agree on what should be done or how it should be done. However, both sides using scare-tactics and fighting instead of talking isn't going to get anything done. A new poll shows that around 2/3 of those asked don't understand the health care bill. Think about that - we have people going to town hall meetings and rallies to protest and drown each other out instead of asking questions and listening to the answers about something nobody understands! How does anyone know if they're for or against something if they admit they don't understand it? Meanwhile, I'd guess that unless someone lives in a bubble or among only the VERY rich everyone knows of someone who has been affected by our current system. I'll go further and say that even if you're not aware of anyone you know I'll bet there is someone and you just don't know it since health and finances are two things some people keep private, especially when it's bad news.
The bottom line is we KNOW there are people suffering, financially, physically and emotionally and even dying now; we DON'T know what it will really be like under whatever new system eventually gets passed because we don't have it yet. I feel it's much more frightening to stick with what we know will only go from bad to worse than to move forward and make necessary changes. It could be done in a bipartisan way if everyone would just stop fighting each other and get to work.
Annie
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
1 Sep 09
I've been saying this for years. I agree....and you're not even blue in the face yet! 
But for the life of me I do not see how it proves your point that conservatives are making all this up? It only makes me believe that that is the plan of the government, to limit and restrict care. If Insurance companies limit care to save money...make a profit....how much more the government who would have to depend on taxes and a limited budget?
But for the life of me I do not see how it proves your point that conservatives are making all this up? It only makes me believe that that is the plan of the government, to limit and restrict care. If Insurance companies limit care to save money...make a profit....how much more the government who would have to depend on taxes and a limited budget?
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
2 Sep 09
"....and you're not even blue in the face yet!"
Wanna bet...lol? Clearly, there's nothing in the world I could ever say that will "prove my point that conservatives are making all this up?" to those of you who don't want to accept it as such. However, while there's no "proof" that what the fear-mongers are saying will come true I think there's plenty of proof that it's happening now with private insurance.
"If Insurance companies limit care to save money...make a profit....how much more the government who would have to depend on taxes and a limited budget?"
For one thing it wouldn't be for profit and there wouldn't be anyone receiving multi-million dollar bonuses on the backs of people whose claims they rejected.
Annie
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
2 Sep 09
Damn Iris.......80? you are an old bastarrd aren't ya...lol, no wonder your so damn cranky all the time.
anyway, I just wanted to concure with you and several others that the health care discussion, at least in this forum, does indeed seem to be calming down a little. Hell, we could run the country from in here couldn't we?
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
1 Sep 09
It does make sense to clean up the system we have already instead of scrapping it entirely.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
2 Sep 09
Oh Goody...that means we can get rid of not only the faulty water heater (Obama) but all the faulty wires and switches? (congress)
Good idea anniepa!
Kick them ALL out! in 2010!/2012!
