Florida to consider VMT (Vehicle Miles Traveled) Tax
By spalladino
@spalladino (17891)
United States
September 16, 2009 10:24pm CST
Mark my words, I will start riding a horse before I allow a GPS device to be installed in any of my vehicles. I have to wonder how the many, many law service companies we have down here would be able to buy fuel for their lawn mowers, weed eaters and edgers. How do you feel about this new tax coming to your state?
[i]It's called a vehicle miles traveled, or VMT tax. The idea is that a motorist should be taxed based on how many miles they travel and not on how many gallons of gas they pump into their car each time they stop at a gas station.
A VMT pilot project conducted in Oregon used GPS devices that were placed in vehicles to record the amount of miles they travel. Special monitors installed on gas pumps were then able to read the mileage and assess the appropriate tax.
The VMT is starting to get more attention because of higher gas prices. The higher prices tend to encourage more people to buy fuel efficient cars and drive fewer miles. The result is lower gas tax revenue for governments.
In Florida's transportation's five-year work plan, the Department of Transportation is looking at an expected drop of $7 billion in gas tax revenue.
The head of the DOT's office in Central Florida told the Orlando Sentinel the VMT tax is something that seems "definitely worthwhile."
Jim Smith of the Florida Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Stores Association doesn't agree. He says allowing government to monitor the miles you drive raises some privacy issues. He also says a VMT tax would tend to benefit people in bigger cities where mass transportation is available.
But, the head of Floridians for Better Transportation, a business-backed group, says a tax based on the amount of miles a person drives is the fairest way to tax Floridians for transportation needs.
[/i]
4 people like this
14 responses
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
17 Sep 09
I say to the politicians, YOU FIRST! Before they can vote on any such tax, their vehicles should have these GPS doohickies installed. They should already be paying this tax before inflicting it on us.
No politician that backs this can honestly claim any respect for our rights.
2 people like this
@grammasnook (1871)
• United States
18 Sep 09
So do we the people demand that they pay a tax on the fuel that is being used on the planes they ride around in by the miles they ride it ?
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
17 Sep 09
I couldn't agree with you more. I would imagine that this would be tied to vehicle registration but, yet another problem is our part time residents who don't have their vehicles registered in Florida. These new pumps would have to take into account tourists, since tourism is a big industry here...so they would be taxed on gallons purchased I would think. Our snowbirds would get that same break while the permanent residents, who are the backbone of the state, would be the ones getting screwed.
@alyssakenzie (462)
• United States
17 Sep 09
There would be no way that I would allow them to do that to my car either! People shouldn't be punished for driving fuel efficient cars after all isn't that what the government has been pushing for everyone to do! They always find a way to try and ruin a good thing and in the end it seems to be worse than if they would have never of messed with it at all. I truly hope that someone comes to their senses before this goes any further and they realize just what they are doing. It is nobody's business how many miles someone drives and I would like to think that it will be able to stay that way.
2 people like this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
17 Sep 09
I'm firing up the emails now. This is not something that people are going to like and our reps need to know this.
1 person likes this
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
17 Sep 09
This is rearing it's ugly head again? Damn. There are other issues with this, constitutional issues. Think aboutit. Lets say you regularly travel out of state and you buy gas in that other state, you are technicly being taxxed by your own state for gas you purchase and use in another state, that alone presents problems. the GPS attatchment has issues of course, in addition to jusrt being plain orwellian and outragous, it also presents 4th amendment issues.
I sincerely hope to god people are pouring in to the streets in OUTRAGE over even the mere mention of this.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Folks aren't pouring into the streets yet but I have been busy emailing friends and family down here and asking them to voice their objections to our state reps and to spread the word themselves. We've been screwed enough. Florida Power and Light were granted yet another rate increase not too long ago and passed it along to our local electric companies so our electric bill has jumped up. Food prices continue to rise, gas prices are still up, feed prices are up according to a rancher we know. It's ridiculous and we're not going to just sit back and take it.
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
17 Sep 09
I wonder if the lawn service equipment would be exempt? In Ohio the semi's that have the refer units are exempt from the state tax since the unit itself doesn't travel on the road.
I would make out if I was only taxed for driving because I don't drive much. My car travels about 100 miles a week on average LOL I don't understand why they don't just raise the state tax on fuel instead of spending all that money on GPS units.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Raising a state tax on fuel doesn't allow them to violate your privacy and that's what they're really going for. Only an idiot believes this program would actually increase revenue, because as you noted, a lot of money has to be spent on GPS units, and that doesn't even get into the infrastructure to monitor them.
2 people like this
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Increasing the tax also doesn't allow them to track our movements. If they equipped us all with GPS units, it would be impossible to gather privately and should things get bad enough that it's time for a revolt, they would know and be able to stop it before it's even organized properly.
It's a device for controlling peoples' movements and getting us under the government's thumb! Have you read 1984 or We The Living or Anthem? The first by George Orwell, the last two by Ayn Rand. If not, read them and they will open your eyes to what's already happening and what will happen if we don't stop it.
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
17 Sep 09
So dragon do you not own a cellphone with a sim card or a car that is already equipped with GPS? With either of those devises anyone can track you when ever they want.
And, isn't Florida run by Republicans?
@murderistic (2278)
• United States
17 Sep 09
I think the idea is ridiculous. I also don't think it will be technically possible. Every county has different gas prices for a reason - each county has different regulation standards on gas and different taxes. If the VMT tax is payed AFTER the miles are driven at another time (where gas prices would have changed), the correct tax won't be paid. The state is basically making a gable and it doesn't make any sense.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
17 Sep 09
The issue of being taxed twice would come up in the northern part of my state, where folks come and go across a couple of state lines. If you drove from Florida to another state and filled your tank there for the return trip, would the GPS continue to add miles since those pumps wouldn't be equipped with the mileage reader? Would you then be taxed for the total miles driven when you next filled up in Florida?
@murderistic (2278)
• United States
18 Sep 09
True... also the logistics of mandating GPS units on cars is going to be impossible. They'll have to basically give them out for free or at a low price which will be costly in the fist place, and then you have to wonder how many of these things we'll need? If they are put in permanently everyone will need one per car, even if they don't drive all of their cars often. And what about other vehicles, such as boats, that need gas? Will they be declined at gas stations for not having a gps unit? Will the miles towed be added in on their miles? There is just so many issues that will need to be worked out for this tax.. it sounds more expensive than profitable, considering the cost of the gps devices and all of the administration costs that would have to go into this. I don't know who came up with such a stupid idea or why people were stupid enough to take that person seriously, but I guarantee you that this isn't going anywhere.
@jimntam (93)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Sounds pretty crappy to me. People who live outside of these larger cities are getting punished. People who drive fuel efficient cars are being punished. I don't understand how they can do that. It does sound like a big privacy issue to me as well. Guess I would buy a lot of gas cans and fill those up. Then I would fill my car up from them. Since the gas cans don't have a gps system and they don't drive any miles. They ever think that if the price of gas was lower then more people would drive more and the revenue from the gas tax would be higher. I swear before we know it the government will get over 50% of our paychecks.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
17 Sep 09
You reminded me of something I had forgotten about that concerns my area of Florida...private industry. I live in an agricultural area and we also have a short line railroad where I used to work. The large operations have their own gas pumps which are filled by large oil company tanker trucks. As it stands now they pay tax based on the number of gallons they buy. How would the government be able to determine in advance how many miles...for instance tractors...drive between fill ups? It would be impossible to determine in advance how many miles the railroad's engines travel because haulage varies from week to week and, depending on what is being hauled, sometimes two engines are used instead of just one.
@jimntam (93)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Yep, don't see any of them turning in their S.U.V.'s for smart cars. Although that would be funny to see. Bet none of them will have to pay the miles tax either. They'll probably all be exempt from it and probably drive more miles than any of us.
1 person likes this
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
2 Oct 09
Personally in my opinion, this is Stupid for sure, and makes me wonder what next? I really think overall this is getting a little Crazy and why don't they leave the taxing for things on other things for sure? I know if they did this it would only hurt the Economy more and more people would be forced to either drive less and take public transportation more for sure.
@thyst07 (2079)
• United States
17 Sep 09
If they approved that kind of a tax in my state, I'd pack up and move to a different state- after some rather angry letters and phone calls to my state representatives, of course. Taxing people for going from point A to point B is just wrong. That kind of tax would automatically penalize people who have a longer commute to work, who live in a rural area and have to drive a distance into town for grocery trips, or who have elderly or sick relatives that they have to drive to go visit frequently. It would also be a double-whammy for people who are too poor to own a hybrid vehicle, and would still have to pay the normal amount for gas plus the new tax. If they did install a tax-per-mile program, they should make miles traveled for work, school, or caregiving exempt, and only charge for leisure miles. Even that would still be bad, in my opinion, but it wouldn't be as bad as charging people extra for doing the things that they have to do to live life.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Unfortunately, it wouldn't be possible for there to be exemptions because the gas pumps would automatically calculate the tax. Because I live in a rural area there are a lot of people who travel long distances for work or school and many of them can't afford the newer fuel efficient vehicles.
1 person likes this
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
17 Sep 09
Can you say "George Orwell"? He was so prophetic!
No way would I do that. It's none of anyone's business how far I travel. It would save me money as I drive only about 30 miles a week averaged out, but I will NOT have a government mandated GPS put on my car!!! It's just another nefarious way the government is nosing into our business so they can keep track of us--and put down any public gathering that might be planning a protest.
@pixeltwistr (613)
• United States
17 Sep 09
WOW...glad i dont live in fla anymore!!
I am like you ...I will NOT own a gps device....
I dont see how they can get away with this because of privacy issues but IF they do manage to pass it look out....that could lead into them tracking people for all kinds of reasons....
And the logic behind it is pretty rediculous too....if they tax every gallon of gas then it accomplishes the same thing....even though all cars get different miles per gallon i dont see how taxing someone per mile is going to accomplish more than taxing them per gallon of gas....
Besides how do they figure this will earn the state revenue?? By the time they pay for the gps devices for every car and the readers for them for every gas station ...that is going to be astronomically costly...but of course they will make us each pay for our own tracking device so they can keep track of us...
Very unconstitutional!!!!
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
17 Sep 09
note to self....if this passes...don't ever move to florida.
1 person likes this
@realan (518)
• United States
17 Sep 09
This is ridiculous. There are just so many things wrong with this! Lets make sure this doesn't happen!
@millertime (1394)
• United States
17 Sep 09
It's extremely infuriating but doesn't surprise me one little bit. The government is doing everything it can to force people into buying fuel efficient cars and then they turn around and find a way to penalize you for doing it. It doesn't matter what we do, the government will come up with new ways to get into our pockets. They just can't get it through their heads that we need less government, not higher taxes. The Obama administration is doing the very same thing. Promising on one hand not to raise taxes, but that just means INCOME taxes. They are just finding other ways to increase the total tax we pay, not necessarily income taxes. Used to be you had to go to a magic show to see that kind of slight of hand.
@N4life (851)
• United States
18 Sep 09
I would be just as upset as most others here if this were to become law in my state, however it would not necessarily penalize for driving fuel efficient cars. They are also considering this in Oregon and they would make some sort of staggered payment arrangement to where you paid less per mile if your car was more fuel efficient than those driving gas hogs. Like I said though, I am in no way for any type of GPS in my car.
@millertime (1394)
• United States
18 Sep 09
IF they make that provision it might be somewhat more fair but there was no mention of that in the description for the FL law. If you consider that the only reason they are implementing such a tax though is the fact that their revenues are down precisely because people are buying more fuel efficient vehicles and buying less gas, they are in effect punishing people for buying less fuel by finding a way to tax people a different way. You are right though, it doesn't actually punish the people that buy the fuel efficient vehicle, it punishes people who drive more miles, so the people that drive more will pay more taxes to make up for the lost revenue from fuel efficient vehicles. It's just totally unfair any way you look at it. And they wonder why people are having tea party protests all over the country...
