sorry for what my country has done?

@jb78000 (15139)
September 25, 2009 12:55am CST
how much do you identify with your country? do you feel bad about things it (or rather its government) has done in the past? in my case, much as i enjoy not identifying with the uk i do occasionally feel some secondhand guilt for past (and indeed not that past) misdeeds. hiya india for starters. also do you think that politicians should ever apologise for things even though clearly neither they nor their government are in any way responsible? german ones have done this and i think it was the right thing to do even though germany now has one of the best systems in europe. (i think, if you live in germany and wish to correct me please do)
6 people like this
28 responses
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Sep 09
The past is important to remember for only one reason... so we don't make the same mistakes. Trying to reconcile the misdeeds of the past require us to do two things.. and neither of them are good. 1) Just the people of the past by the standards of today. This is a howling injustice to the people of the present. We look back in horror at the things done, but we don't look at them in the context of the day. If you were raised in a culture where slavery was ok, chances are you would become an adult that thinks it's ok. We all hope we'd be those enlightened few who was above all that, but the reality is, we probably wouldn't be. 2) Punishing people for the "sins of the fathers". Sorry, but no one deserves that. My great great great great great great great great grandpa may have been a pretty scummy excuse for a human being, but that doesn't make me one. Your ancestors may have been scoundrels and rascals, but that doesn't make you one. Now, that doesn't mean that apologies aren't in order at times. I think that if we come to our senses as a society, it is important for us as a society to apologize and make amends to the people our policies harmed. however, just to them, not to those who come long after the injustice is perpetrated. The germans of today owe nothing to the Jews for the Holocaust. The Missourrians of today owe nothing to the Mormons for the "Mormon Extermination Act". Today's US Railroad workers need not feel guilt for the treatment of Chinese people while the original tracks were being laid. I am a direct decendent of King Richard the Lionhearted. Which means a few things as far as lineage, but nothing as far as what he may or may not have done and what is owed to me, or what I owe to others. NOTHING. We're born to the parents we're born to, in the geographical area we're born in. That means that we have physical psychological and behavioral characteristics that place us in various demographic groups. There is no inherent "original sin" that comes with those demographics. To believe their is is to prejudge entire groups unjustly.
2 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Sep 09
It's all just a "something for nothing" scheme.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
25 Sep 09
Yes, we do, and I think there is nothing wrong with a little pride or shameful feelings at the past. It's when we try to make the people of the present pay that crosses the line.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
richard the lionheart junior eh? hello ricky. what you've said is true, and well put actually. but i think a lot of people identify quite strongly with their country and as well as feeling secondhand proud of certain things (past and present) also sometimes feel bad about others.
@celticeagle (167015)
• Boise, Idaho
25 Sep 09
I do identify with my country. I am patriotic and i agree with what they are doing as far as helping people in other countries. I don't like the crap going on overseas but I agree with the reason behind it. Not everything can be taken care of in a day either. I think my country could do alot worse.
@celticeagle (167015)
• Boise, Idaho
25 Sep 09
Yes, indeed and it has a history of trying to help.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
had to quickly check what your country was there - states right? well your country has indeed done quite a few bad things but i'll agree that it could have done worse.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
25 Sep 09
Since I've never been OUT of my country I guess I identify pretty strongly with it. I love my country, I consider myself patriotic and a "good American" but I don't think loving one's country and being patriotic has to mean believing it's never done any wrong. During last year's Presidential campaign there were attacks at those who considered the U.S. to be "imperfect"; sorry, but I certainly think we're imperfect! Nobody and nothing is perfect and when you love someone or something that includes admitting the imperfections and wanting the best for the person or thing you love! Absolutely, I feel "sorry" for some things my country has done in the past or for things that were allowed to happen to people in the past. I may not have done it, I don't know anyone who did it, nobody is still alive who did it but that doesn't mean we can't say the words "I'm (or we're) sorry"! Annie
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
25 Sep 09
THAT goes without saying...OF COURSE the blue rabbit is perfect...lol! Annie
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
if it wasn't for that lol you would now be offically my favourite mylotter annie
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
i agree with all that annie - except the bit about nobody being perfect. please change that to 'nobody is perfect except the blue rabbit' ta.
1 person likes this
• United States
25 Sep 09
I have talked about this in the past, but even though he is now my ex and this happened a long time ago, I do feel very bad about how the U.S (my country) put japanese people, including his parents, into the internment camps, and also how we dropped the A bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Both of those things definitely made me feel bad to be a white american, even so many years after the fact.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
it's strange how you can feel bad about things that are absolutely nothing to do with you isn't it? completely off-topic really good thing he's your ex btw- he didn't sound like a great guy at all spicysweetie
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
25 Sep 09
Spicy, before you feel TOO bad about Nagasaki and Hiroshima, you should be aware our west coast came very close to suffering the same fate. We just got lucky enough to be faster at building our bomb. The target date for the joint japanese/german nuclear strike on our west coast and pacific fleet was going to be days after we dropped ours. In short, we just got there first. Had we not ended the war in such quick fashion, had we not developed and used a nuclear weapon, WE would have been the first nation in history to have one dropped on us rather than Japan.
4 people like this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
x - hey do you seriously think your wee soddisng country and its belated invlovement ended ww II finsnished it? if so go ahead - braincells are being faxed over
1 person likes this
• United States
28 Sep 09
I have no problem with acknowledging past mistakes, but I do have a problem with apologizing for something you had nothing to do with.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
28 Sep 09
Sometimes it's just a simple gesture, two symbolic words that can go a long way. Annie
• United States
29 Sep 09
But if you apologize for something you had nothing to do with, doesn't that make you a liar? How can you be sorry for something you didn't do? As I said before, I have no problem admitting past mistakes, but apologizing for anything that you or we had no control over is, in my opinion, a sign of weakness or sucking up.
1 person likes this
• Australia
29 Sep 09
The actions of American governments and businesses over the past 100 years against the countries they either feared or were busy exploiting, is precisely what has created the terrorism you, and we by association, are experiencing. The cycle has to end somewhere: the refusal to take responsibility for the actions of your previous (and not so long previous at that, like Shrub's mob) governments simply allows the current and future governments to continue business as usual. Defending against terrorism is obviously necessary, but simultaneously trying to defuse it by starting to treat the rest of the world fairly is equally important. Apologiews for past conduct is a starting point in the defusing. Lash
25 Sep 09
I'm British, but second generation Irish. I live in the north of England and think of Yorkshire as my home (I LOVE it!) and work for a charity working with black and minority children. I do feel guilty about what the british have done in the past, even though at that time my family were part of the repressed in Ireland! When I hear people like the BNP complaining about foreigners in our country, I want to shout and say a) we invited them here to do the jobs we had noone to do,and b) surely weowe them something for taking over their country, stripping it of wealth then giving it back. We should be aware of what we have done, but not let it cloud our lives, as that will keep making a situation of them and us, when we should be working towards all being the same people together.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
sunshine - your reaction to the bnp's vicious nonsense is far more restrained than mine. anyway agree with you on all you said. great comment.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
paraffin, not oil, is far quicker sunny. i'm just about to send you an f/r because yout wee comments are fairly bright.
25 Sep 09
Oh no! I want to be violent, don't get me wrong! But it would be like fighting fire with oil!! they need ignoring and one day they will run out of things to say! They are just idiots and if Darwin taught us anything, it is survival of the fittest and in this day and age that will be the most intelligent!! (Hopefully!)
1 person likes this
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
25 Sep 09
I love my coutry and consider myself patriotic but I've never been able to abide the expression "my country right or wrong". It sohould be "my country when right and I will do everything in my power to make her right when she is wrong". To me, that is true patriotism. I was reminded of this when our president was inaugurated. I watched some of the ceremony with a woman who was the descendent of an old Philadelphia family of Quaker abolitionsits. Her children went to Washington to bear witness for their ancestors who worked so hard to laythe groundwork for that day but never lived to see it. They were true patriots who didn't get to see significant change in their own liftime but their family remembered their patiotism and I found that very moving.
1 person likes this
• Australia
26 Sep 09
"It should be "my country when right and I will do everything in my power to make her right when she is wrong". That is one of the most pointed and acceptable definitions of patriotism I have ever seen. Well said. Lash
@jb78000 (15139)
26 Sep 09
it is indeed. nicely put irisheyes.
• United States
26 Sep 09
I do not feel bad about anything my country (USA) has done in the past with the exception of slavery. However I am ashamed and mortified at what our current president Ibn Barack Hussein Obama is doing to my country RIGHT NOW!
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
fair enough
@Eisenherz (2908)
• Portugal
26 Sep 09
I don't think anyone should "feel sorry" for what their country has done. First of all because it wasn't that person's call and secondly because we have to learn to assume our errors, learn with them and surpass them. My country has a big colonization background just as well and I don't feel the least bad for what we've done. Since when civilizing several nations is a bag thing? I wonder what would be of those countries had we not found them, it'd be a terrible thought for granted...
1 person likes this
@Eisenherz (2908)
• Portugal
1 Oct 09
Just goes to show for how ungrateful they are, even these days when we keep stepping over our own blood to help them out..
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
don't agree that those countries would see it like that eisenherz.
• United States
26 Sep 09
Politicians, governments, and the such, are not well known for apologies. Sometimes, i don't think they have an understanding of what the term actually means. The only thing they vision is politics. The see a country, but they don't see the people that live in those countries. Somehow, it turns into just another word for them.
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
interesting point there. they can indeed have a narrow outlook.
@Opal26 (17679)
• United States
26 Sep 09
Hey jb! I don't really think that our government can take the blame for all things that were done in the past. How far back are they supposed to be responsible for the things that other regimes have done? They can only take responsibilty for what they are doing and try to make things better here and now! I mean here in the USA we are in a terrible mess right now and alot of the reasons have to do with the last President, but for how long can we blame his government? All we can do now is hope that our new President will try to fix things and make them better!
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
this is reasonable
@Fortunata (1135)
• United States
25 Sep 09
If you're referring to what the idiot Obama is doing, no, it shouldn't be up to the head of a government to keep apologizing for anything. It is a sign of weakness and mental instability to keep apologizing, unless it is part of your culture to save face, such as in the asian countries. I, for one, am sick of Obama apologizing. Idiot.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
28 Sep 09
actually i was not - although it's what made me think of this. now i don't think apologising is a sign of weakness at all. i very much admired what a german politican did in poland and sometimes wish my country's government would have the grace to do it.
@sunny68 (1327)
• India
25 Sep 09
i certainly do identify with my country. no one is perfect, every country has ups and downs, but still we move forward. i don't think that we carry any grudge against any country. even though British ruled us for about 200 years, we parted as friends and still have very good relations with them. this is one thing that makes me feel proud of my country.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
i don't agree with carrying resentments for the past either.
@sunny68 (1327)
• India
29 Sep 09
a good attitude to have..
• Indonesia
26 Sep 09
I dont reallt think my country need apologize to any of other countries. They actually need to apologize to their own people because ot the bad government. But i think now my country getting better and better. In the past, netherland has been colonized my country for almost 350 years and make all my country men suffer. Japan, thought only occupied of country for about 3.5 years, it make our people more suffer then what the netherland do. Thought japan led our people to go to school. But you know, it is something that people of the country do in the pass. It is not what the country do now. Thougt we angry at them, we angry only for the people in the pass. Now, many of my countrymen like japan. Anime, manga and other culture from japan inspired many of our people. I dont think many of us hold a grudge to japan. We also already forget about what netherland do to us. Now, many of us is a fan of netherland nasional soccer team, and of course one of their soccer club, Ajax Amsterdam. No Body really care about what the country do in the past, coz the past is the past, nothing you can do change it. So, i dont think other country should apologize for what their old countrymen to the other at the past. Well at least, that what i think.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
well moving on is also a good thing. i don't hold resentments to foreign countries for historical events either (having lied through her teeth the rabbit goes off to beat up some english people. )
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
25 Sep 09
While you may have India on your list of guilts, Ireland should be first. Just saying.
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
hello person who does not live in ireland. you have a point.
1 person likes this
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
25 Sep 09
True, but I am an O'Neill! That makes me clan Irish. So there.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
25 Sep 09
irishididevildeeds. hey you have unwittingly just given me an opportunity to say just how funny the americans that come over here with claims of scottish ancestry are. you may well be called macleod but you are clearly an american. [goes into convoluted xenophobic rant]
1 person likes this
@Hatley (163776)
• Garden Grove, California
25 Sep 09
hi jb78000 I am an American in the US and I do identify 'with my country as why not, I am not ashamed of my country we have done a lot to help other countries and besides I am an American citizen born here so I owe my allegiance to the United States of America and no where else. I don't think my country had done anything to be very 'ashamed of myself.
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
well i'm really talking about feeling personally ashamed - that's pretty silly. however is suspect a lot of people who identify with their countries feel both proud and bad in a second hand way about past events.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
25 Sep 09
I'm as American as apple pie, baseball and NASCAR. I also consider myself to be "southern" which is a regional subset all it's own consisting of gracious good manners (for the most part), the love of iced sweet tea, family get togethers that include the entire neighborhood and respect for your momma. I agree with the poster who mentioned the "sins of the father", however, since I was alive during those times, I do feel bad for segregration and the discrimination of black Americans. I grew up in a town where black Americans could not live in certain communities and found it grossly unfair that the girl who was my good friend while in school was not allowed to come over to my house to play...and vice versa. The reasoning rang hollow even to my young ears.
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
29 Sep 09
fair enough
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
26 Sep 09
If a country wants to apologize for past deeds, let them do so. After that, it's done. Learn from your mistakes and move on.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
26 Sep 09
No, I do not. There are a few reasons for this. First, every country has done wrong things. If I should feel bad, then so should every single person on the entire planet, from the massive former USSR, to local tribal people in central Africa. So now that everyone on the entire planet feels bad about their country, how has this helped? No, instead you do the best you can to learn from past mistakes, and move on. Second, given that I am an American, the American public has given more money to charity, more humanitarian support, more food, more medical help, and more foreign aid, than any other country the in the world yet. And even in the mistakes that the American government has made, most were done for good reason, just with bad outcomes. So no, I don't feel sorry or bad about what my country has done in the past, and nor do I think Russians should feel bad about what the USSR did. I want everyone to grow up, learn from each others mistakes and move forward. Kinda wish Americans would learn from Russia that Socialism doesn't work, and quit trying to ruin our health care system.
1 person likes this
• United States
29 Sep 09
Myself I live in america and may get some reactions out of this one. On a whole I am not unpatriotic I do not hate my country or anything else. In many ways we have many things some other countries do not have. That being said at the same time I do honestly hate how some in this country act like they are the greatest in the whole earth and let us forget about any wrongs we have done we are just great. The plain fact is this country has done some terrible things to many people along the way. Our history has been made up of crimes to many along the way we have the Native Americans, Africans that they took from Africa and places and enslaved them for how long. What they did to people who they claimed were witches why all because they held different views than those. This is in a country that was suppose to be built on the basis of freedom. It is true that we are one of the freest around but that does not make it perfect as they claim. So yes I have to feel regret over some of our countries sins from the past and yes even today. It is one thing to be proud but on a whole I think we have a history of pushing ourselves off in a manner it is our way or else and that is not a choice of freedom it is the opposite. I know people are going to trip about this so be it but it is true if you look at so many that have been assaniated along the way especially the ones through the 60s they were all people of great standing who challenged the way things are. They were killed off because they fought for there right to speak their mind and in most cases by the government that is paid and put in power to protect those rights and they in too many cases are the ones violating those rights. So my answer yes I can feel shame for some of the crimes my country has done to so many in some cases the ones of their own kind
1 person likes this