is this the true face of evil?
By jb78000
@jb78000 (15139)
September 29, 2009 6:26am CST
j. k. rowling's children's books have been accused by various parties of encouraging withcraft. the latest on this is an accusation by a former bush script writer that she was denied some award or other by the bush administration because her books were encouraging diablical activies. do you think this is liable to be true? do you think it likely that this administration were swept along in some of the very silly hysteria that greeted a series of (i think over-rated) kiddies books?
i had a quite search on the net and found a lot of sites getting pretty upset about potter. (makes you wonder how they greeted bewitched really). here is not one of these sites but just a news article on the latest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/sep/29/harry-potter-rowling-medal
4 people like this
17 responses
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
29 Sep 09
Oops, answered Thea instead of you, but you both downrated Potter so it wasn't too inappropriate.
But it is amazing how ingrained this "witch" thing is in religious people. A decade or so ago, shortly after my third degree initiation, I came across an old friend at a folk festival, Irish catholic, and when I mentioned I had been studying witchcraft as a religious path she literally stepped back and made the sign of the cross at me. It took a couple of other friends to point out that she'd known me for 20 years, so how could I suddenly turn into something evil overnight, and she had the good sense to do a bit of reading and questioning about the Craft and apologised to me the following year. She actually turned up at my workshop "Who Are the Witches" that second year, and bought the album lol.
It's much worse with fundamentalist Protestant groups such as abound In America. The fact that I'm a witch is my last line of defence against Mormons and Adventists, after the savage dog threat fails.
Lash
1 person likes this
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
29 Sep 09
Ah, gently points out, in Wicca (at least the style I studied) third degree initiation is High Priest/ess level, and the paraphernalia has been long in place, including making and consecrating my own wand (oak) and athame (hand-worked cast iron blade), plus a couple of other hand-crafted items of personal significance. The evil cackle is optional, and my long practised and polished lascivious chuckle doubles for both.
Lash
1 person likes this
@thea09 (18305)
• Greece
29 Sep 09
Goodday to you grandpa_lash, I in no way degnigrated any potter books and nor would I until I read them for myself and formed my own opinion. But I know indeed that I don't tend to enjoy the same reading material as my ten year old these days, but would probably have done so when I was ten. Of oourse if you can assure me they are full of rampant serial killers reduced to cannabalism atop a snow encrusted mountain, while hiding out in Afgani burkas, or whatever my latest interest is, then I shall duly borrow a copy from my son.
I should add for the record that I have no interest in religionism or witchraft and would personally choose to leave them out of my reading mat
So, are you a fan of Enid Blyton yourself young sir?
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15139)
•
29 Sep 09
well to be honest i know that a lot of adults read harry potter but aren't all that keen on them myself - they're ok but i've seen what i think is better children's fantasy. i don't really go in for any kind of fantasy (with the occasional exception) now although i liked it as a child. you've brought up wicca i take it - don't know all that much about it myself but what i can tell it's a harmless, peaceful kind of religion. some people apparently get their idea of a witch from hansel and gretel or something. shakespeare? get some props if i was you - a cauldron, some obscure bits of animals, an oven certainly, a broom, and the complsory evil cackle. should do the trick nicely.
@thea09 (18305)
• Greece
29 Sep 09
Hi jb, these Potter things were not my cup of tea as don't go in for kiddies books but can't see that they've made my son go in for any diabolical activities.
I am totally against censorship though and still reel in horror at the thought of the wonderful Enid Blyton being removed from public libraries for being politically incorrect. I passed on many of my own long retained volumes of Enid onto my son who has acquired the most lovely grasp of old fashioned language by reading them, which I see as only a positive. Any normal child prefers to read a good book with a plot which attracts their attention and has no need to be mollycoddled by a bunch of interfering adults into censorship or condemnation of books.
Do these people you mention of throwing around accusations have some direct connection to the vatican and its infamous List. Most likely the teachings from the Chinese cultural revolution and the Nazi book burning parties have influenced them somewhat. Never stop a child from reading or attempt to stumt their imagination with politically correct garbage, children have more sense than they are given credit to.
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
29 Sep 09
By the way, what exactly is the "pe" topic that I have just answered in?
Lash
1 person likes this
@cripfemme (7698)
• United States
29 Sep 09
Clearly not. The people who have a problem with Harry Potter or any other children's books are, in my opinion, a few french fries short of a happy meal. There's now a big fight over this picture book (as designed for consumption by people who can't read yet) called Uncle Bobby's
Wedding. It's about a family of guinea pigs. The niece is jealous because her favorite uncle is marrying someone and she is sure that she will be replaced. The someone he's marrying is another guinea pig named Jamie. People all over the United States are now freaking out over gay guinea pigs. I think that's a little ridiculous when we have an economic crisis and ongoing war. The book was even placed on the banned books list. I always thought that books that ended up there were serious books like 1984 and Farenheit 451. Not picture books. But, at least it made it easy for me to participate in national Read a Banned Book Week without too much effort.
@jb78000 (15139)
•
30 Sep 09
gay guinea pigs - goodness how shocking. especially when from your description it seems to be mainly about children feeling anxious about new partners. i got curious about this banning of book and looked up a list of books that had been banned at one point or another - lot of children's books on there, including dahl's james and the giant peach for some unfathomable reason.
@dawnald (85146)
• Shingle Springs, California
29 Sep 09
I enjoyed the books and the movies. AS for the witchcraft thing, people will believe what people will believe.
@dawnald (85146)
• Shingle Springs, California
29 Sep 09
and what pops into my head? wabbit stew....
ducks for cover and runs for it...
@PeacefulWmn9 (10420)
• United States
30 Sep 09
Hey, tweet, your typing is as good as mine today!! Haha, that's why I can read it so well ; )
Oh, re the question: I see the Harry Potter books as mysterious fantasy, not evil, and not likely to turn all children into witches...which if you ask a "wiccan" is not consider devil worship, etc., anyway.
Another good discussion! You're on a "rabbit roll" m'dear.
Karen
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
1 Oct 09
Is that like a chicken roll (with lettuce and mayonnaise) only different?
Lash
1 person likes this
@PeacefulWmn9 (10420)
• United States
1 Oct 09
Grandpa...it could be! I've heard that rabbit does taste like chicken :D
@purplealabaster (22091)
• United States
29 Sep 09
Well, I'm an American, an adult (sorta, kinda), and I believe in God, and I also have every Harry Potter book and anxiously await every Harry Potter movie and video game. I don't see anything wrong with the books relating to witchcraft, although I do have some objections to certain plot twists, but that is an entirely different subject. The movies aren't nearly as good as the books, and only loosely follow the plot, but they are still entertaining. I think this whole thing is ridiculous! I don't remember all this commotion regarding the Lord of the Rings books and movies, but maybe I just had my head in the sand (or the clouds when I thought of Viggo Mortensen and Orlando Bloom). They had magic, therefore witchcraft, and tons of violence not to mention the biological experiments regarding making the Uraki, so I don't see why Harry Potter would be more objectionable than Lord of the Rings. I don't think that either are objectionable, mind you, I'm just saying.
1 person likes this
@purplealabaster (22091)
• United States
29 Sep 09
Was my hunky Angel in there with Buffy and Charmed?
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
30 Sep 09
I find all the hooplah over a mediocre writer quite silly myself.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
30 Sep 09
Her books are popular because it is a good story. It's just her writing that's mediocre. I'm more evil, you know that!
@shewolf52002 (1214)
• United States
29 Sep 09
I personally did not allow my children to read the books, not because I was sure of any of the accusations but because I believe there are better things they could read. That being said not all conservatives are interested in abolishing books or censorship as someone posted. People have the right to choose for themselves and their children. I havent heard about the medal and seems to me that would have made a big splash in the news? Since the writer is so popular I mean.
@shewolf52002 (1214)
• United States
1 Oct 09
I prefer they read something that reinforces the Christian values we try to show them... though we are not always successful, lol. Classics, financial books such as Rich Dad Poor Dad. Dont get me wrong our children are older now... youngest is 15 and we are open to listening to their reasoning if they choose a book, movie or music that we feel is not appropriate. I will read, watch or listen with them and then we discuss it. We are very proactive and not just mini dictators lol.
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
30 Sep 09
I know that people get so worked up over the Harry Potter books but, they get kids to read and really isn't that the most important thing? My oldest never liked reading and wouldn't read for pleasure until Harry books now, he looks reading.
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
30 Sep 09
Well I have always encouraged my kids to read and I love reading. My youngest just entered school and is reading at a third grade level, I guess I taught him well
@jazel_juan (15746)
• Philippines
30 Sep 09
wow.. now i am really amazed how humans think..hehe but honestly i do not think harry potter is evil. i mean, my kids and i even love it..we watch the movie and after watching, i did not see evil effects on them.. they are even learning what is the difference between good and evil and its amazing how their imaginations work... they do ask things about it but the result of watching it is more on the good side rather than on the bad side.
i just do not like the movie version that much, i am still a book fan though . hehe
@magickat (381)
•
30 Sep 09
It's ludicrous to suggest that the Harry Potter books inspire evil! This is just another case of small minded people over reacting. There are thousands of books for children and adults about magic, witchcraft and the occult and have been for years, just because Harry Potter has been so successful it gets singled out for persecution by zealots who are far more dangerous than anything they protest against. Also, witchcraft isn't necessarily evil. Paths such as Wicca are very positive and teach against doing harm to others.
@jb78000 (15139)
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30 Sep 09
of course there have been. children like that sort of thing are these people verging on the hysterical or just have way too much time on their hands? shouldn't they be off doing actually good things if they really do think they are serving god? incidently one series of children's books which i liked a lot as a child - the narnia series was written by a very devout christian and had plenty of magic and (positive) characters from other religions in it (mainly greek i seem to remember) and apparently some christian overtones. never noticed that myself until the very end when aslan suddenly changed from he to He.
@myfourteen405 (56)
• Philippines
30 Sep 09
I'm sorry but I think that accusation is a product of a very narrow mind and thinking. The story of Harry Potter indeed is a very good piece of literature (and movie as well) but everybody knows that it is mere FICTION. Then, is this the reward for making a work of art? Wow! That is very frustrating. I have been exposed both to the movies and books of Harry Potter and I all that I can say is I am not influenced to play witchcraft or any voodoo stuff by these stories. But for a very brilliant mind of hers, it is frustrating.
@LittleMrsSunshine (201)
•
29 Sep 09
Ok, I'm a christian, and as I have mentioned before, a person with buddist tendancies!! I really think witchcraft is a belief system or religion in its own right and should be afforded the same benefits as the other more recognised religions, especially as it out dates them by thousands of years. We should worship our planet!! I love the Harry Potter books as great escapism and fantasy, not brilliantly written but amazing stories, reminisent of Blyton as others have said, which were my favourites as a kid, and I'm not a devil worshipper, racist or snob or anything else these people claim we will turn into!!
I could join in the slagging off of fundamental christian americans but i won't, suffice to say that some people really need to open their eyes and read the message of the bible ( and other religious books) is tolerance love and brotherhood not rules regulations and opinions!!! Tho I have to say that america is a large country and so has a large population of idiots!!(In comparison to England which has a smaller population and a smaller population of idiots) Thats why they get listened to more!!
@jb78000 (15139)
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29 Sep 09
well agree with all of that pretty much. hey if let's say 5%of any population are idiots do they get listened to more when they are more of them even though they will still be equally outnumbered? do you also think it might be also something to do with larger populations polarising more?
@LittleMrsSunshine (201)
•
29 Sep 09
Probably, plus a lot of communities in america are more cut off than the smaller communities in England, so things like relgion become much more important to them and local spokespeople can have more of an influence. If that makes sense.
@leroycaryl (20)
• United States
29 Sep 09
I have read every book and watched every movie of Harry Potter and quite frankly , I think J.K. is a phenomanal writer. This stuff is great and there is nothing evil or diabolical about them, Though I am not a God fearing man even if I was I don't think I would let a litlle fiction story scare me. We are born we live we die thats it, game over, just like a tree or a weed.
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
30 Sep 09
It amuses me, under the circumstances, that the Potter saga is about the triumph of good folk over evil terrorists, and protecting the masses from that evil.
Lash
@ladym33 (10979)
• United States
30 Sep 09
There are people who will use anything as an excuse to do certain things. So I don't doubt that some people might try and attempt witch craft because of the books or movies or both, but I doubt it is that many and I certainly don't think it is anything to worry about. It is not the author's fault if people choose to behave that way. She writes fictional books and in fiction anything is possible, if people take it seriously it is not her fault.
@opalina143 (1240)
• Morristown, New Jersey
29 Sep 09
Wow. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the Bush Administration were really that repressive, I don't think the story is true. For one thing, it seems odd that a writer of children's books would be up for such a medal. It's a medal on protecting the security of the US. So why would a British writer get it? Former winners were politicians like Tony Blair and yes, Harper Lee won it too (and she was a writer) but I think she did a great deal of work on race relations and her book was about African American and White people working together, so I can see why she got it. Why would a children's book author whose work has nothing to do with politics or social issues even be considered? I don't think the story is true for that reason.
@jb78000 (15139)
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29 Sep 09
to be fair i don't know all that much about this medal - it seems to be a bit more general than just protecting us security judging from this though:
"The medal is given to "individuals who make an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavours". During the Bush administration, it was awarded to individuals including Tony Blair, Harper Lee, Muhammad Ali, Alan Greenspan, Nelson Mandela, Doris Day and Charlton Heston."