I quite like to play in politics but....

Yes, dear Hatley, we can agree to disagree and even like each other, isn't that great. I will not play the games either.

Hi Hatley, I know exactly how your star suffered through going into politics here and that is exactly the point I'm trying to raise, that the childish behaviour which results in these negative ratings should be stopped so that we can all have a chance to discuss these matters. You may not realise it but you did in fact enter a political discussion a couple of weeks ago and made the very valid point that Obama was not responsible for all the problems America faced now but a lot were a legacy of Bush. You were immediately criticised for this perfectly sensible viewpoint and accused of idolising Obama. The rabbit and I did stick our noses in and defend you of course, but yet another example of a perfectly reasonable statement being taken completely out of context.

Hi elena, well that's certainly your choice but I believe discussing politics is part of daily life, it certainly is in my country and goes on all the time. The internet allows for a wider place to discuss them and it is the atmosphere in the politics section here which this discussion is drawing attention to.

I don't see why it has to be like that though. Some people are capable of discussing any subject rationally without name calling. Some of the issues are so trivial anyway I don't think emotions come into it, it appears to be more oneupmanship.

i think most people can have strong opinions or feelings on things and somehow manage to discuss them without having a tantrum if they see something they disagree with.

A tantrum - love it. Maybe it has to do with the maturity level of some of the people. Also some things do come across harsher than intended and once you've put a person on the defensive all may be lost.

Yes, I guess you're right. Or I just need to think that American Conservatives viewpoints are the only ones that matter and to hell with the rest of the world.

I get mixed up over who is on which side Zeph. If you don't agree with one view you're accused of idolising Obama. I'm not on any side of American politics but its the only ones that get a look in. My foray with Greek politics got little attention from America at all.

Hi Zeph, why did I guess you'd think like that. You just expressed the most sensible view of anyone in a political discussion but you got jumped over with totally irrelevant material as your response wasn't agendasised enough. Really if you want to play in there you must learn to become more boring and repeat yourself a lot.

I respond to a lot of discussions in religion and I have only ever had one bad comment: "Idiot! Get an education!" which of course, came from an atheist. I ignored it. I believe that when we discuss (debate) using respect and courtesy ourselves, we do not usually receive responses that are abusive.

religion is another area of foul name calling

I never ever step into religion knowingly Jodi, it's far worse than politics. The god squad are completely intolerant of different opinons. Trying to persuade the less use of links tactic in politics but it's hard for some of them to break away from it as they can't actually have original thoughts. But they certainly have time to hit buttons.

I want to keep popping in there sweetie but my reputation doesn't like coming with me. I realise that most of my points are over their head as may venture a little off the particular bash obama or bush discussion of the day but I like to encourage a wider picture to be seen. I also don't think that people should start two discussions in the same day on the exact same topic just because they made a really prattish error in the first one which would lead to their embarrasment. You venture in there more often than I and they have little respect for your views.

i know. i go in there less and less and i never bother starting a discussion that i want sensible responses to in there.

amendment - expect not want and add sensible responses from the regulars.

Or maybe instead of removing the ratings, introduce having to supply a REASON for a negative rating (as with the !)

Hi cloudwatcher (and debs of course - can we bypass the constitution here please sweetie), politics with respect sounds good but somehow just doesn't seem to work here. Politics is awash with dogfights and I presume some cleanup is done each day to obliterate and remove most of the insults so the next day it all reads in a rather bizarre fashion. I do believe that some of the political posters are actually hiding behind false profiles and are actually school boys and I know a few of us have believed this for quite a while. It can be the only rationale behind their behaviour I believe. Greece too is a very patriotic country with a very proud history and a very active political following whereas in the US now and the UK there is a great deal of apathy regarding elections and such which is not suprising when people get so disillusioned with their representatives. I don't think because we are not American though we aren't qualified to comment when the news from there figures so largely on the world stage and they look for our support in various issues. They should appreciate comments from the allies they expect support from on the world stage and that doesn't just mean our political representatives but the citizens of those countries too.

Thank you for admiring us patriotic Americans. I will never apologize for defending the Constitution. I realize my government is NOT my country and feel free to bash any politician or policy that does not honor the Constitution. Why the big deal about the Costitution? It had made America strong and it made Americans free for a long time. I'm not going into my fourth of July speech here, but I am really sick of the American people being viewed as they are around the world because our politicians are abusive and traitorist.

It depends on the quality of the discussion. I'm searching for it now in the religion and atheist sections. Have you responded to the thread yet?

Hi Latrivia, that's the point though, it should be open to everyone for spirited debate but it isn't, at some points the extremists jump in with their never ending links and sources and no real opinions of their own, and turn the whole thing into an insulting match. It's pretty obvious when one receives a neg hit where it has occured. I just think some of it gets too hijacked by those who become personally abusive when they see an original thought expressed. Also there's a separate interest for religion but some of them bring in their god squad views into politics too and start pontificating against the the opposite view by throwing their religion into it. If I wanted to get involved with that which I don't, as find it the same old stuff I've heard all my life, I'd be debating in the religious interest. I am frankly appaled at the way some of these extremist Christians carry on and obviously appear to have not a clue on the original point of their own religion. I thought good Christians were meant to turn the other cheek. I'm wondering what to do with a comment I came across yesterday on the Christian extremist view of atheists but just can't face the abuse that such a discussion would bring down. Let me know if you'd like it, it is a total classic.

Ah, it isn't a discussion, it's a quote from one of the extremists on the right which I think you'd rather enjoy turning into a discussion. I'll send you a F/R and pm it to you if you're interested but I'm sure you will be. I've seen you in politics and know you'd be able to handle yourself on this one.

Hi Zandi, sorry to hear you've had the experience too, it is what stops many sensible people posting in there as the unruly have made it their own playground. I actually thought that something like this discssion would make a change in attitudes a little but it has simply made it much worse in there. The vitriol poured on me now by one poster who I've never even spoken to yet again puts me off that section. To have one opinion which someone reads and does not agree with which is a natural thing in most areas, to be turned into a rant that makes me out as closed minded to all foreigners and insulting to billions is just so ludicrious it does not warrant a reply. I think that those who know me know that my interest in foreign cultures is a fact. However I now think that to have such remarks deleted as they inevitably will be, the discussion I refer to is littered with people speaking to themselves as the offensive remarks between each post has been removed, is not enough. I think such vicious behaviour should be dealt with by suspensions.

Hi scarlet_woman, but that is my point, the fighting in politics should be stopped somehow so that reasonable debate can be open to all without it being an exclusive zone of the name callers. Maybe those who resort to a lot of on line name calling should have a few days suspsension or something.

It is a very reasonable request, Thea but some people just have to show their ignorance. I hate any kind of fanatic where they can't see that everybody has a opinion & respect it no matter what the subject whether it agrees w/your or whatever. It's not right that they rated u down of course.

Well I've been put off for good today I'd say Aunty and this obviously made no difference. I exited the discussion which had turned into a name calling fight by saying I was not staying as I had been neg rated within the discussion. On coming across another alert from it I came across the most vitriolic post directed at myself that I have ever seen by someone obviously posting from behind bars somewhere as they advocate all kinds of violence. It's just not worth responding to such rubbish so once again I exit with a drop in reputation. However whilst the system allows such things and at most will probably delete the offensive paragraphs I shall try to work out someway to persuade admin to look at suspending such members.

good morning Aunty, the sooner more people realised that is exactly what most politicians are the sooner they would stop taking ridiculous stances defending one side against the other and find a common middle ground. And pigs might fly of course. But I'd appreciate the right to make that point here in the political section without being ignored or rated down. That is a reasonable request I believe.

I've always felt that island people reach out more to other countries. I could be wrong but this is my opinion. I stay away from USA politics as it is very emotional and living where i do, I understand that. I'm still possibly naive enough to believe that if people form different nations and cultures - poole like us - ordinary people - can talk and exchange ideas n politics or any other subject then we come closer to world peace. Yes, I can be idealistic at times as there never has been peace in the world. But at least let us try to understand each other better. I was paranoid when my beautiful young daughter went to work in North Carolina and also to study for her Master's Degree. I was terrified that she would face racism as she is bi racial. I would have preferred her to work in another part of the USA that was multi cultural. Her eldest brother and I met in NC to see how she was doing after her being there for a few months.(He came fro the U.K.) I also wanted to see where she was living. I went with my prejudices of North Carolina, and guess what? She had not and did not receive any racism at all. She went to love NC and NC returned that love to her a hundred fold. The community accepted and loved her and she loved them back. She would love to work there again one day and hr school want her back. Now the reason I told you all this was to explain an important point but for the life of me, I cannot really remember what it was! Possibly not to hang on to our prejudices (me) and be open to change etc. That is all I can come up with right now. I have to leave now and go to my part time job. I'm now wondering if it all makes sense - me, I mean- Blessings

Hi cynthiann, I like my many American friends here too, some of them even lurk around in politics, but the politics section here is open to all and sometimes it needs a bit of a reality check and common sense injecting as the issues which are debated won't stand the test of history. There is a blinkered minority in there though who do know nothing of world events beyond their own shores whereas Europeans seem better educated in that regard and even have views on other countries other than our own. I do believe we should be able to give them without name calling and negative pressing. I do know nothing at all about Jamaican politics and won't ask you to discuss them if it is a dangerous arena, which I really had no idea it could be. I take it that you aren't using the word treasonable lightly. Just the other day I posted one thing I'd seen about an American posting that he had no wish to converse with foreigners, it went on to say that we only speak drivel. I highlighted that this obviously does not apply to all Americans but sure enough it was misunderstood and I was then accused of making rascist remarks by a poster on this thread. Incidentally the tantrums of yesterday weren't directed at me but I find them so tiresome to the point of distraction of the issue.

Hi Sweetchariot, I agree with you on the religious sections but never go in there at all as the negative button hitting goes into extreme swing there or someone comes along trying to convert someone. With politics though why should you have to worry about saying the wrong thing, politics is an everyday issue and as we all have the freedom to vote we all have the right to express an opinion, and an opinion given without masses of dodgy research from dubious sources is far more valid than one gleamed from sources, in my opinion. Those who throw around their sources and quote others to back up their point are only doing one thing, looking for someone else to back up their view which is thus not an original point in the first place. As I say we should all be able to go in there with a view or to question and not be lambasted by name calling.

Yup, it is wrong that there are those who seem to enjoy attacking others of a different view...unfortunately, there are those "immature" (there we go again with that word..lol) posters who can't have a mature(oh-oh) discussion. But that is what the world is made up of...and we can't change those people. So, we either boycott those discussion rooms, or be prepared to be lambasted. I would think it would all depend on how personal and sensitve we chose to be towards these attacks.

Hi Gerty, which is exactly my point, a stop should be put to it so that the area is open to everyone and not just those who now monopolise it and keep everyone else out with the playground antics.

Hi Sid, you are another then re-iterating my point, you have to feel brave to venture in there in the first place but the antics in the playground put you off. It is monopolised by a few who are childish with remarks and negative buttons and thus put off the many.

Excellent! Love that bunny, thea! I will be back...

Always welcome paula.

Hi paula, you are very wise to stay out of there as no matter how rational you expect people to be in there there is always someone who comes along screaming like an extremist harpy. There's also a tendency of some who just ignore a response which challenges the brain and to stick with the source brigade who prop themselves up with links. I hate confrontation myself which is why yet again today I vowed to stay out of there as it is dominated by people I really don't want to exchange views with, only to be negged by them. But never think that the reason you can't enter there is because you don't know enough. They only know what they read in their dubious sources and there is zero originality. If you ever want to raise anything in the political line in safety come and post it here in pe and I'll get the bunny to frighten them away.

Hi Lou, thanks for the bit in the middle there which just emphasises my point that a new angle rather than one or other party line is what I think we should be able to bring to politics. People with hard fast views who look for every source to back up their point show no originality of thought. Nail on the head Lou about the same point being reiteraterated over and over. I've actually tried that method in there myself when a question goes ignored as they can't fine the source to answer on their behalf and daren't express an opinion that hasn't been put into print in case it misses the party line. Remember Paxman and the same question he put on Newsnight 27 times, probably before your time but an excellent method as a question but not as a response. The negative rating thing really gets on my nerves and along with lots of people it does put me off entering the session. But I want to report a discussion in politics where I know it happened the other day but feel that such a report will just be ignored. Maybe I'll do it after another coffee.