Wars and Religion, How many recent wars were started because of religious belief
By EvanHunter
@EvanHunter (4026)
United States
December 11, 2009 5:28pm CST
Here I go mixing politics with religion but I was curious to see how many people could site recent wars as being caused by religion. I would also like it if you could point out exactly how it was caused by religion not just "I say it is". In your opinion how many wars do you think are caused out of pure greed or power hungry individuals. I really see no reason to bring up the middle ages and the crusades as we are all a bit more educated than to blindly follow what any pope or kings tells us to do and most of us can voice our opinions today. So lets try to stick to some modern events shall we!
2 people like this
10 responses
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
14 Dec 09
I do not know of any wars that were started out of "greed". Unless you consider a lust for power to be "greed", in which case most wars are started by a lust for power.
The few that are not, are normally due to entangling alliances. One of the things our founding fathers were against was entangling alliances with other countries.
World War 1, was essentially started by dozens of countries that all went to war, because they were all allied with each other.
The First gulf war was basically started because we had allied ourselves with Kuwait. If we had not, likely neither war would have ever happened, unless Saddam had done more to threaten us.
But most wars happen because of a lust for power. Saddam wasn't greedy. He had all the money could have possibly wanted. He simply wanted more power. He wanted Kuwait, and a port to the ocean, and more control over trade, and more land, and more more more.
Similarly, Russia went to war with Georgia, not over greed, but power. Georgia was wiping out a militant separatist group that supported Russia. Russia wanted to remain in control of that area. So they attacked Georgia. It was all about power and control.
I think the misunderstanding about religion and war, is that most people do not understand the most religion stems from what people already believe. There are exceptions, but generally the use of religion is simply to justify what they already want.
So you find a group of people that want to slaughter each other, and they'll make up a religion to justify what they have already chosen to do.
A perfect example of this would be Rwanda where after the Genocide, the Tutsis returned and the Hutus fled to the Congo. In the Congo, Christian missionaries came and helped the refuge Hutus.
Suddenly the leader of the fled Hutus was a Christian. He explained how he was sent by God, to protect his Hutu brothers, by slaughtering Tutsis.
Now, if this were not so sick and true, it'd be laughable. It of course, isn't possible to justify mindless genocide using the Bible. So instead, they simply morphed Christianity to justify their actions.
Now a non-religious person could look at that and claim they religion started the war. Instead, the war had already started, the people had already been killing each other. They simply morphed a religious belief to fit what they had already chosen to do.
1 person likes this
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
15 Dec 09
Thanks for your reply. As I read your reply I was reminded of an article I read in the news paper once where the writer was trying to buy some adjoining property between him and his neighbor. Of course he was trying to get it for a more economical price and his neighbor said "Mister out of all the things I do know I know this, God isn't making any more land" Land or claims to it do seem to cause a lot of conflicts.
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
17 Dec 09
So than do you feel that if there was a great amount of space/land between these different factions would still be at war with each other? I think that if there was more space between them than surely that wouldn't be the case but since they are right next to each other they try to drive each other out of what they feel is their territory.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
16 Dec 09
Well considering that there are roughly 36.8 Billion acres of land on the earth, and there are roughly 6.7 Billion people, means that each person could in theory have 5.5 acres of land completely to themselves. That includes men, women and children, and even politicians which should be illegal.
Even if we were to assume that half of the acres of land were uninhabitable, polar ice caps, swamp land and jungles, that's still a little less than 3 acres per each individual person.
Of course if you group people by family, husband wife, two children per plot of land, each family could have just under 11 acres to themselves.
So obviously the issue isn't due to a lack of land.
Moreover, I can not think, off the top of my head, of a single war or conflict lately that's been over land. Rwanda was simply over racial hatred. Somalia is over racial hatred. Nothing more. The Arab-Jewish conflict is simply that, Arabs and Jews hating each other. Russia and Georgia is simply about power.
Which war would you site as being over land?
@Gordano (795)
• United States
12 Dec 09
In my opinion, The so-called war on terror is all because of religion not politics, it is religious war masked by political Claims, not because I say it is, but because:
former President George Bush Clearly said that it is a crusade
On the eve of the war in Iraq, George W. Bush talked about a "crusade". He was obviously quite pleased with himself for having thought of such a catchy phrase. But he was quickly silenced by his advisers, who pointed out to him that the word "crusade" has very unfortunate associations for the Muslim world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br_70Kbdpow&feature=related
Bible verses were used on cover sheets for intelligence reports written for Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld and other Pentagon officials.
[i]"One of the cover sheets features a photo of a tank in the sunset inlaid with Ephesians 6:13: "Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand."
A "World Intelligence Update" included Proverbs 16:3: "Commit to the LORD whatever you do, and your plans will succeed" above a picture of a machine-gunner.[/i]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/18/pentagon-bible-quotes-no_n_204934.html
Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2008/03/mccains-spiritual-guide-destroy-islam
What else do you need to consider it religious war, specially when you know that they announced that they found Nothing in Iraq after Killing 2 million Iraqi innocent Muslims ?
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
12 Dec 09
By the way thanks for your reply Gorano, here is some news detailing what those guys have been up to. http://thinkprogress.org/the-architects-where-are-they-now/
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
13 Dec 09
Honestly, I believe most, if not all wars, stem from greed and corruption. Religion is simply a tool or scapegoat to justify one's actions or convince others to join your cause.
You can't blame a non-living concept for something. It can't do anything. It takes people to start a war, and those people will find a justification for said war, but in the end, it's people who are to blame, not religion.
@scarlet_woman (23463)
• United States
22 Dec 09
i would imagine religion and greed are about 50/50 by now.
and some is greed under the blind of religion (meaning it wasn't really about that in the first place) so it's hard to say.
but i'd say 90% are started by something the other side has be it money,land, food whatever.
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
22 Dec 09
Thank you for the reply. I think its pretty easy to determine what peoples goals are in war by their actions. If they invest a lot of man power and money to one area that is usually what they wanted to get a hold of to begin with.
@Revan2009 (469)
•
12 Dec 09
I will put my personal belief in percentage as to the top reasons that have caused war in known history.
60% caused for money/land
40% race (black vs white) ethnicity (Red team 1 culture/religion etc vs blue team culture/religion)
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
12 Dec 09
Thanks for your reply by your percentages wouldn't you say than the 40% could be more of a tool of the 60% who were in charge to drive them on or get them to choose their sides or what would benefit them?
@Revan2009 (469)
•
12 Dec 09
It works both ways, it all depends on the amount of support religion/culture has vs money/land. In the Middle East religion/culture rules above money and land... it's not as obvious in the US... I would say money rules in US.
@magtibaygom (4858)
• Philippines
22 Dec 09
Okay, let's stick to modern events. The recent civil war in Iraq between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. That's one example. Another example is the ongoing war in the Southern Philippines waged by Moro Islamic Liberation Front against the predominantly Christian government. Another one, the attempt of Milosevic and his friends to cleanse their country of Muslim population. Ethnic cleansing. What else?
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
22 Dec 09
Thanks for the reply, Very good points although I think Milosevic war was more about racism than religion, religion just fell along the majority of the lines, anyone who was non-Muslims still were killed based on race. Sunni and Shiite, same religion but still following a power struggle over who was right even after all these years. Of course one could argue that its still a power struggle for dominance. The last I do know a few things about but not enough to speak on.
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
12 Dec 09
Hi EvanHunter, I think that most recent wars were mainly about greed and power struggles. Even in the middle East, the struggle for land is right up there. Most people seem to believe that the war in Iraq, was either about weapons of mass destruction or was all about oil. There have I suppose been some civil wars that may have had something to do with religion, but there were also other factors. Even the war in Northern Ireland really had to do with the region wanting to be a part of the Republic of Ireland, rather than being governed from Britain. Religion is sometimes blamed for wars that were started over something entirely different. Blessings.
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
12 Dec 09
Thank you for your reply. Well I do know they did find some weapons of mass destruction in Iraq it was the weapons the United States had sold Saddam Hussein, the same poisonous gas he used on Iran and the Kurds. As I said above I believe in most cases its more of a tool used most of the time to help force people to choose sides.
@jambi462 (4576)
• United States
12 Dec 09
It's pretty hard to say actually because it seems like a lot of conflict and wars have been started over religious arguments. I don't know how people can allow their differences in belief to drive them to be that violent but of course not all wars are spawned solely from religion. I think that greed also fuels a lot of war.
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
12 Dec 09
"I don't know how people can allow their differences in belief to drive them to be that violent" I think its caused by fear, if you constantly keep reinforcing the idea there is an enemy to be fought than you are either going to jump on the band wagon or give up any resistance to the idea that this is the wrong action to take.
@thea09 (18305)
• Greece
12 Dec 09
Hi, religion is a great way to control the people to fight in wars which are caused by other reasons, usually greed, oil, or control freaks. Those who rouse their people to war through playing on the populations beliefs are not the devout and holy types they represent themselves as, but who would go to war only to further increase the power and money of the leaders, they need to be manipulated by some other cause and usually religion is a nice handy little tool.
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
12 Dec 09
"not the devout and holy types they represent themselves as" Amen to that!
@poingly (605)
• United States
12 Dec 09
"Caused by" religion is an interesting wording. Someone pointed out that the current War on Terror is a religious conflict due to the Islamic terrorists that attacked us. But are America's motivations religious? I would hope not!
Hitler was a megalomaniac (power hungry, certainly), but religion was not exactly a non-issue in WW2 (concentration camps, obviously).
I don't think war motivations are as clear cut as they once were.
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
12 Dec 09
"I don't think war motivations are as clear cut as they once were." I think that the motives are out there for people to see but they don't bother to look, we are to concerned with trying to live our daily lives to see who is pulling the strings or what it is they are trying to steer us towards.