Voluntary Manslaughter For Cold-Blooded Doctor Killer???
By anniepa
@anniepa (27955)
United States
January 13, 2010 3:59pm CST
Scott Roeder, who shot Dr. George Tiller in the head while he was performing duties as an usher at the Reformation Lutheran Church last May is now being allowed by the judge to argue "he should be convicted of voluntary manslaughter because he believed the May 31 slaying would save unborn children." According to Kansas law voluntary manslaughter is defined as "an unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force" and carries with it a prison sentence of approximately 5 years instead of the life sentence for first degree murder. Read more here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34810725/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
Do you agree with those who say this ruling could lead to increased violence against doctors who perform abortions? If so, do you agree with those who denounce it or are you in favor of what may amount to the justification of cold-blooded murder?
Annie
1 person likes this
12 responses
@AShraderJr (156)
• United States
14 Jan 10
I am a man. Therefore I have no right to have an opinion about abortion. But anyone that kills a doctor that has broken no laws, should be locked up for life. I definitely think that letting this guy off will lead to more Doctors being murdered.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
15 Jan 10
I must admit, I'm sure not used to getting that response! I've always hesitated, as a woman, to say men don't have the right to an opinion on this very personal and difficult issue but the facts are no man will ever become pregnant as the result of rape or incest and no man will ever face the risk of losing his life or having permanent health problems because of a pregnancy. When a woman or young girl becomes pregnant, she can't just walk away and ignore it.
Anyway, I agree that letting Roeder off with a slap on the wrist will definitely send the wrong message to those who are already unstable enough to want to harm doctors that provide a service they don't believe in.
Annie
@Opal26 (17679)
• United States
13 Jan 10
Hi annie! This is such a crock of sh!t! The man murdered a
Doctor in cold blood! It doesn't matter what his insane reasons
were! Oh, wait, I don't want him to get off on the "insanity
plea"! Using the "abortion issue" here is not a viable defense!
And I can't believe that any Judge would fall backwards into
that bullsh1t! No man has the right to take another mans life!
This has nothing to do with the Abortion Issue and that facts
around that! This was a living breathing human being who was
alread a MAN, not a fetus! Nope, no way will I believe that
any lawyer or Judge could turn this around to make any sense
to get this murderer off! There is such a big difference between
having an abortion which is justified and killing a Doctor
which is murder!
1 person likes this
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Jan 10
The judge is letting him off now?
Okay. I'm so confused.
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
14 Jan 10
He just did a really late after birth abortion on the doctor.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
14 Jan 10
I found this:
http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1679476.html
I'm sure I'll hear a lot more in the coming days. I don't usually watch the local news but I may have to while this is going on.
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
14 Jan 10
Stupid Stupid Stupid. How can killing him save unborn lives. Killing him did not stop abortions. If a woman decides to get one she will just go to a different doctor. It is not like he was the ONLY doctor doing them.
I think the arguement hold no weight at all. But leave it to a judge to let him argue it.
1 person likes this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
14 Jan 10
Well, he was almost the only doctor doing them.
Tiller was the medical director of a clinic in Wichita, Women's Health Care Services, one of only three nationwide which openly provided abortions after the 21st week of pregnancy (known as late-term abortion).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Jan 10
So it's not a plea? He's just being allowed to argue, as a defense, that it was "voluntary manslaughter"?
He can argue anything in his own defense, I guess. Whatshisface, the terror suspect, has his lawyer trying to get the case dropped because his due process wasn't speedy enough.
I don't like either. But I have a feeling neither will work.
1 person likes this
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
13 Jan 10
100% true until the world meets 1 liberal to be the exception.
@jmowreader (83)
• United States
15 Jan 10
It's too bad taskr doesn't actually KNOW any liberals. We are very much against terrorism. We are also against the things that don't work...you do realize that while you conservatives are patting yourselves on the back claiming to have struck a blow against terrorism by having everyone go through security at the airport barefoot, ninety percent of the containerized freight entering the US via ocean ports is never inspected for bombs, radioactivity or anything else? The technology exists--a lot of weigh stations are equipped with bomb detectors--but as of right now the terrorists could put a bomb in a shipping container, send it to any East Coast port and take it anywhere they wanted with very little chance they'll get caught.
@poingly (605)
• United States
14 Jan 10
Obviously, the defense would argue that Roeder's state of mind fits the definition of voluntary manslaughter to a tee. However, the prosecution could easily argue that by interpreting the statue so loosely that even many terrorist actions could fall under this defense.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
14 Jan 10
Great point about terrorists! Actually, I think people like Roeder are a kind of terrorist. NO, I'm not comparing them to al Qaeda, Taskr, but doesn't the idea of someone walking into a church and shooting someone at close range in cold blood cause terror? I know many people don't like it one bit but abortion is legal under our Constitution. Murdering someone who does something that, like it or not, is legal is still murder and not manslaughter when it's premeditated.
Annie
@laglen (19759)
• United States
13 Jan 10
This is a tough one. I am against abortion except in the mist extreme cases. But I do NOT support killing the doctors who perform them. When you make a conscious decision to take a life with out the benefit of a judge and jury, then that is murder. I can kind of understand the thinking behind saving the babies lives, but it is not right to take another persons to protest this. I think he should be tried for murder, he tried and killed that doctor for murder.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
13 Jan 10
Calm down Annie. That's how our legal system works. All the judge is doing is allowing this guy to argue in his defense. It's the same right given to every cold-blooded killer in this country.
In law, there is really no such thing as an open and shut case. Even if someone commits a crime is thoroughly videotaped from every angle, and confesses to police giving every minute detail, there can still be a trial that lasts months. Many judges won't even accept guilty pleas if the defendant hasn't made a plea deal with the prosecution.
Legally, what this guy is doing is called an affirmative defense. An affirmative defense is actually a gift to the prosecution as it takes the burden off them. Now Scott Roeder is effectively guilty until proven innocent since his defense acknowledges he shot Tiller.
Of course this won't lead to increased violence against late term abortionists like Tiller. There's no evidence to back anything like that up. I will not denounce our court system for allowing a man to argue his own defense for his actions as that is at the very core of our judicial system that everyone has that right regardless of whether you had a personal attachment to their victim or not. Tiller got to argue his own defense for all the viable babies he killed so his killer gets that same right.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
14 Jan 10
Wow, after reviewing Kansas State law, the scarey thing is, it appears that it may actually be a valid defense.
"Statute 21-3403: Voluntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is the intentional killing of a human being committed:
(a) Upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion; or
(b) upon an unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force under K.S.A. 21-3211, 21-3212 or 21-3213 and amendments thereto."
http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_21/Article_34/21-3403.html
I don't think there's a jury in the world that will let him get away with this defense, but he doesn't have to prove his belief was reasonable, only that he honestly believed his actions were justified. I know I would have done the exact same thing if I were his lawyer.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
14 Jan 10
Wow, this guys dreaming big time isn't he. There isn't an ice cube's chance in a volcano he is going to suceed with this defense. the judge probably allowed it to be entered as a plea for the pure entertainment value of it....lol. Seriously though, this isn't all that unusual for a murder case. the guy is grasping at straws though, he's done for. It was premeditaded murder, no way around it.
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
13 Jan 10
I don't believe that this defense strategy will be effective but the judge presiding over the case has to allow it to be presented. Any defense attorney worth is salt will try to pull something out of his butt that justifies the crime his client is charged with when there's no question that he was there. Since I don't believe this will work, I don't think it will lead to an increase in violence directed at doctors who perform abortions.
1 person likes this
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
14 Jan 10
For those who believe in the sanctity of life, neither Scott Roeder nor Dr. George Tiller is innocent. However, the courts have judged Dr. George Tiller innocent even though he killed hundreds and Scott Roeder only slightly guilty because he killed one. For anyone who believes that God is sovereign you know His word teaches us that both of these men are guilty of murder whether one person was killed or hundreds of the unborn were. Scott Roeder may have felt he was doing God's will by ridding the world of the murderer of the unborn, but God does not need us to help Him get rid of people like this. I personally believe God would rather we change the heart of the abortionist rather than murdering them. Dr. George Tiller may have thought he had a duty toward women and society in general by performing wanted abortions, but what he did, for whatever reason he felt it was justified, he showed a lack of trust in God and His ability to get the woman through whatever her situation was. Dr. Tiller's god was too small.
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
14 Jan 10
Yours is a heartbreaking truth and one for which, I believe, our nation will pay dearly.
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