Still think science is the cure all for humanity and religion is a curse?

These you have listed are the original progressives whose underlying philosophy is evolution, the theory of evolving.. thus eugenics is seen as a tool to better mankind for the sake of the 'best' and 'most fittest' survivors.. George Bernard Shaw alone, spoke of the need for a humane gas.. Others worse than Hitler are basically left out of the history books, because no one has ever claimed they were christian. Hitler was an evolutionist (loved/revered Darwin) and an occultist (and occultist hypnotist, just study his speeches and mannerisms of).

Whereas, Christianity, for one recognizes man is not evolving and becoming better, more humane, etc, but requires strong checks and balances on powers and seats of power.. But the progressive theory is that man and esp government can and should solve mankind's problems, which requires powerful government, w/o the safeguards of checks and balances.

I think you need to study your history a bit better. Hitlers was undoubtedly a evolutionist and practiced eugenics, in fact he used American science and laws to establish his own eugenics programs to kill and/or sterilize not only Jews but anyone not deemed worthy by scientist and social elites of that day. Many scientist from the united states either directly advised or wrote books and papers on Hitlers practices until the war broke out. They viewed it as their science put into the ultimate practice. Hitler also blatantly said that religion was a tool to enlist people to his true cause, which was eugenics. Of course history has conveniently left out the fact that the basis for all these experiments and atrocities is of course the theory of evolution and eugenics. It has also left out all the practices of the united states which were just as barbaric as what Hitler did. Still today human experiments have been done and the same attitude that prevailed in those days is the same that allows it to continue today. The elitist and racist attitude. To say that science had nothing to do with it is to blindly ignore who controlled all the higher institutions of learning at that time, who do you think taught at universities? In the 30's and 40's not even Jewish scientist could speak against eugenics as it was so deeply embedded into main stream science. Look at Bertrand Russell - Eugenics and race who won the Nobel prize for literature.

I have to agree, it's not science itself - facts and observation - that is wrong headed, but how it is used. Also, if a theory is merely based on other theory, it's not really science (observable data, etc) and I would call that even more wrong headed with a great potential for calamity.

Thank you for the reply. "So the problem lies with people and not in RELIGION or SCIENCE." I agree but the problem I see is that the truth has been white washed to hide what has happened.

I also agree with what you have said here. And since Evanhunter seems to agree as well, I think that this discussion in which he accuses science of so much wrongdoing is somewhat extreme...and contradictory to what your post says.

Thank you for the reply. Yet how easy people recall what was done in the name of religion and how easy they forget things done in the name of science.

EvanHunter, Let's put it this way, Science may cure all for Humanity but Religion is the cure FOR ALL Humanity. There's a difference here at the end of the day and I do not have the slightest disregard for Science on my part at all. Have a nice day.

Thank you for the reply.

Eugenics is genocide when it is based on race, which it was at that time. It makes no difference if you sterilize a human being or put a bullet in their head you have effectively cause genocide. One is just faster than the other.

Thank you for the reply. No I am not talking about slavery but of eugenics which inspired human testing and sterilization of segments of the population based on ethnicity and other factors. Things that were commonly accepted in the scientific community as being best for humanity.

But then what did you mean when you made the comment about the time before Hitler when half the U.S. was performing the evil deeds?? Slavery, in my mind, is the big issue concerning one group of people feeling that they are superior over another...

Thank you for the reply. The current problem is I am seeing a recurring theme in both sides that the powers given to them are twisted for their own dark purposes.

Absolutely correct. Rating your post positively.

Thank you for the reply. While religion has its share of dirty deeds it has never threatened to exterminate the human race. My post was to show people how quick they are to jump on the band wagon of hating religion but how the wool has been pulled over their eyes and history has been rewritten to hide or deny the atrocities that scientist/evolutionist/eugenics have done over the past 100 years and indeed still do today. All while claiming its for the better of mankind. Do I think we need to throw out technology? No, but what we do need to do is to make sure we are well educated and keep the reigns tight on those who control it. The same people that have run eugenics programs over the past 100 years are the very same people with the same mentality towards their fellow man and that is a very scary thing. Religion unchecked is a horrible thing, science unchecked is far worse. As long as things are done behind closed doors these "some bad people" will continue to do the same evil deeds.

Thank you for the reply. I think you need to do some research I have done mine. Say it can never happen here, it already has. Say scientist and government officials are wiser, they still do the same things. Say that its necessary to protect our freedom, its not. Say that its necessary to save our world and environment, its a lie. Say its been stopped, it still goes on today. Scientist and government officials today still have the same mental attitude towards their fellow man that they did back than. Research Joe Burkett on bad gene statement and foster children. Research national security memorandum study 200. Research planned parenthood and roots of eugenics. Race specific bio-weapons. Donations for population controls. The list goes on and on. Who do you think makes all this stuff happen high school drop outs and prisoners or scientist? As far as Hitler getting into the science lab American/English evolutionist and eugenics inspired him. That is a fact, that of course is conveniently never talked about.

Thanks for the reply. Some things we need to keep in mind. If these deeds were to stand in the light of day and were shown for the evil that they are instead of hid than people would see to it that it didn't happen again. I pray people wake up to the truth of it.

I agree! Evil must be exposed, whether it's religion that commits it or science. Evil should never be covered up. If we cover it up, it can only lead to more and worse evil.

Thank you for the reply. The problem is those who are in charge have no intentions of letting us live peacefully as long as they fear loosing control or that people are waking up they will continue to keep the process of fear of other nations to keep us under their control and if there isn't an enemy you can fight they will create one.

Certainly. The common man need only food, shelter and cloth to live on earth. But the greedy one come to rule the world and make the people suffer. There is moral contact for the greedy people who rule the State.

There is no moral contact for the greedy to rule the state.

Thank you for the reply.

yambucket, I see a lot of mob mentality with people who think of themselves as scholarly minded also. There have been countless times that facts have been discovered and they have gone ignored or worse the people who make the facts known are smeared because they don't correspond to the current theories. If there is one thing the scientific community can not stand its admitting it was wrong.

I think your statement to be very generalized. I my experience of living in 4 southern US states over the past 28 years I've found just the opposite to be true: people in general believe their religion to be infallable to the point that they will judge others by it, the world by it, science by it, and themselves by it. I've seen religious people become gravely ill because their beliefs forbid them from going to the doctor because science is "evil", and I've seen people be cruel and violent to others because their religion declared such others to be dangerous. Science is a study, theory, and experiment. But in EVERYTHING there is a dark history... ESPECIALLY when it comes to religion AND science. I think the problem with both of these is people. People who aren't scholarly minded will believe what they chose to believe because they heard that perspective first or because it's what some figure of authority told them to believe. They are the mob, the herd. Only those who break away from the herd will find the truth and THEN make a judgement based on facts.

Thank you for the reply. As much as I feel priest who are pedophiles deserve to be put into prison, do I also feel these scientist and any governmental official that condones crimes against humanity on the basis of bettering the human race also need to be put into prison. Not white washed and hidden from the public.

Thanks for the reply. Wrong am I? Lets not forget the full name of his theory when published was "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life." Funny how the second half has been almost forgotten. Sounds like a handbook for the KKK and you can say oh it was talking about animals but than in his other works he himself applies it to social order of man. Or his second book "The Descent of Man", where he considers the poor as being reckless and says openly that marriage should be discouraged for the inferior. How about his personal notes? Without a doubt he was a social Darwinist and history has been overly kind in my opinion on his beliefs helping to form Eugenics as a social order for the elite. Or how about the speech his son gave on how Eugenics will replace religion? Thank God people woke up to that reality. Saying he didn't share the racist views of that time because he was a mild racist doesn't mean he still wasn't racist or elitist. Saying marriage should be discouraged and than saying well it should be left up to the individual is double talk. Its like saying we should invade this country over here because it would be best for us in the long wrong but hey its up to you guys. Can you give me conclusive quotes where he said eugenics is a bad idea? Everything I have read he states it as it will be viewed as evil, not admitting that it is evil let alone admitting the falsity that genetics is more relevant than environment which makes more difference on intelligence and social standing. When you look at the whole of what he published his cautions against non-empathy and charity are extremely small.

Thank you for the reply. Genetic manipulation has already happened in the past it was called eugenics and I have no reason to believe that this time around will be anymore humanitarian or for the populations true benefit than it was the last time. Most of all don't expect the average Joe to be the benefactor of any of the promised results. Do the research you will find out that human testing has been going on for over a hundred years.

Thank you for the reply. The reason these grave blunders go unchecked is because good people do nothing. Than with time they are hidden so that they can continue to do the same mistakes over and over.

Thank you for the reply. It can also be cleaned very easily when people don't pay attention.