God of bible is NOT Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent.

Very well put!

Tulipstrader, you are wrong. Rollo's response was brilliant. You say you are qualified to judge other gods, but are you really qualified to judge the Christian God after reading only the third chapter of the first book of the Old Testament? Read and study the whole Bible then come back and prove to us that Jehovah, "lacks all attributes and qualities of God."

my discussion is not about to prove or disprove god. you seem to assume that I am an unbliever and nor am I angry. Probably you did not read it. There is no necessity for me to bring quran or hindu scriptures into this topic as it has nothing to do with the topic in hand. If necessary I will start one on that shortly. If you ask me that if I am qualified to judge other god, then my answer is definitely - YES. I am not a missionary preacher to convince others to increase the number of believer of one's own faith. Let me be very clear on that. One thing is clear - you said these with lots of hatred. Instead of answering to the query, you wasted your time and energy. I am really sorry that you logic has no logic at all. if your argument had any logic, then you would not have strayed from the subject. thank you for participating in the discussion.

Well we don't.

Rob how would they have know that what they where doing was wrong since they had no knowledge of evil? Adam and Eve were basically retarded children being punished for something that they would not have had the reasoning ability to understand.

How do we know that Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden even existed?

"That statement implies that you have a preconceived noting notion of what God should be. Why? Where did that notion come from? Where else but from within you? (Are you not the author of your thoughts?) That means that you have INVENTED your idea of God and therefore that you created the idea of what God should be in your own mind and are thus (if you believe in your creation) living by a fiction." 1) "If Jehovah was absent when Satan tempted the woman, it is evident that Jehovah is not omnipresent." assumes that (a) Satan is a real persona and (b) that God is capable of being 'present' or 'absent' in the sense that humans understand it. A) What kind of God would not want his/her/its believers to understand or follow? 2) "If He was not aware that Satan was to tempt the woman, it is evident that Jehovah is not omniscient." Where does it say that God was not aware that the woman (and the man) were to be tempted? B) Nowhere, but where does ANYTHING say that there truly is a God and that the Bible IS OR IS NOT a piece of fiction invented by wayward and rebellious who desired to have something to believe in besides the probably harsh government that they were being subjected to at the time? 3) "If He knew about Satan's intention, but failed to prevent the happenings, it is evident that Jehovah is not omnipotent." Why? It may be in my power to stop my child falling into a puddle (and I would, of course, have told him that it is not a good idea) but, because I don't, it does not show that I am powerless ... merely that I understand that my child is his own person and has free will and needs to learn by experience. God clearly told the man and the woman not to eat of the fruit of the Tree but they disobeyed Him. By giving Man free will, He does not show that He is not omnipotent, He shows that he has withheld it. C) No one is sure if this alleged God did or didn't do anything. We have merely tales and stories that have been put into a collective that is called the Bible, passed down, reprinted, edited, re-interpreted, and done repetitiously as the years have passed. So haven't Aesop's Fables and the stories of the Brothers Grimm. There is nothing to prove or disprove the happenings of the Bible any more than there is to prove or disprove the happenings in many other stories, tales, and fables that have been passed down lovingly from generation to generation. 4) "If He was aware of the happenings and allowed them to take place, it is evident that Jehovah is without compassion." More false logic and unreasonable assumptions! If my child falls into a puddle and gets soaked, does that show a lack of compassion? Not at all! I am compassionate BECAUSE I let my child learn 'the hard way' ... and also because I still love my child and comfort him and tend to his needs, even when he disobeys me. D) If there is any truth or headway into the teaching of the Bible, the lack of compassion speaks for itself. To kill a child because its mother is a wh0r3? What kind of compassion is that? What do the injured and deceased learn from such crazy disasters such as hurricane Katrina and the earthquakes of recent days? God could simply be a convenient invention to account for the desire of a group or an individual to have parental like control over another individual or group of people. Perhaps we should have made our own choices based on our thought, logic, and instincts instead of listening to others who interpret what this supposed ever present God within us is. On that note, I think that Luke Skywalker is awesome. There have been a great deal of stories written about him by numerous authors. I think that he is an inspirational hero and role model. My parents think so, too. Maybe I should take bits of pieces of stories about Luke Skywalker and his struggles against Darth Vader, assemble them in one literature piece, and bestow it upon my daughter as a role model for her. It's just as arbitrary. Your logic is full of holes. I hope you like swiss choice?

Zoey7879, why have you copied ALL of my response before adding your own comment? Not only was it completely unnecessary, because what I wrote is there for all to see, but it confuses the import of what you had to add. It looks to me, from your paragraph beginning "D) ...", that you agree with me that the D.O.'s logic is full of holes but superficially it looks as though you are criticising my logic.

Oops! Swiss cheese, not choice! =x

Hi zoey, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I'm afraid that we have no choice but to pich and choose. It isn't that God changed but that Jesus had a much greater understanding of God. Blessings.

@pose123 my discussion is specific and i wanted replies only for those queries i raise. I have not yet travelled into new testament. i agree that there are good and bad in a book and one need to choose what is good and discard the bad. but that does not answer my queries. your reply seems to be off track. Thank you for participating in the discussion.

"is not a good example of a God that I could follow" Yet the same supposed God had to do with both books of the Bible and you are choosing to follow that God? Sorry to say, but that's hypocrisy. Picking and choosing what you choose to believe.

To say nothing of all the translations and revisions that it's gone through over the last 2000 - odd years - all of which have changed and distorted meanings.

Yes, there are translations of translations of translations. Then there's all the "rejected" texts like the Gnostic gospels. But that's a different can of worms.

You can't beat a good old dose of the King James' Bible. Unless it's Henry VIII's or how about the "Catholic Bible" then there's........ and so on a so forth.

@Zorey you mean to say that.. Christianity by itself is a set of laws that were meant to bring in peace, a constitution like... @tulipstrader i am sorry about that.. i was carried away by the fact that i had these doubts and thought that this is a good platform to put it... as far as i know.. humanity assumed that god exists.. because they wanted people to follow some good deeds.. every religion claims that human has come directly from god... but that is not the fact.. so what i feel is.. we humans formed myths and think its true..

@thesaiyanprice I did not bring christ into my discussion. you seem to have gone off the topic. the purpose of the discussion is not to discuss christ or any other personality, his belief and message. kindly come back and reply to the topic. i will be waiting to hear from you. thank you for your participation in the discussion.

Christianity, in my opinion, came from the need or belief to have a set of rules in order to maintain peace, property, and sexuality. god is an adjective, that in the case of monotheistic Christianity, has been bolstered to a name or title that one could really equivocate with the terms Mother or Father. Christianity sets out a list of rather, what would nowadays be considered relative common sense, rules that we are supposed to abide by, or we shall be left out of consideration for a better "afterlife" and punished with suffering. But we will probably never know the exact basic concept, as it's been polluted and diluted throughout the years, as have most religions and spiritual beliefs. Good grief, you'd think I was an aethiest...

there is nothing anti-woman in whatever i said in the discussion. you seem to think off the topic. i am not bothered if god of bible is anti-woman or not. that is not what i am discussing. my discussion is very clear and to the point. and you have not answered any of those. thank you for your time here and for participating in the discussion.

I have not answered any of your questions only because as I've said, to me God is not human or of any other form...God is just a concept. Also I have no fragmented idea of God as Hindu God, Muslim God, Christian God etc...so if you are saying specifically that the God of Bible is not omnipresent, omniscient etc etc., then I dont agree with you simply coz as I said, all religious books were written by man and not by any God in heaven...no God allowed Adam and Eve to be tempted, no Satan was there to allure them...its all in the mind, its all in the imagination AND herein I place my views again that all religions are anti-woman...concocted stories to keep women in chains and blaming them for all the failings of men. None of the man-made religious Gods are Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent...you have to go to specific places to worship or have to have specific deities to pray before, you have specific hymns and religious rituals, you have a long list of dos and donts, you need to go thru horrible punishments if you dont do as dictated in the scriptures, there is a constant element of fear and unquestioned obedience in all religious books....so how can God be Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent when we are restricting him to our own limitations BUT this is true of the Gods of all religions and not only Bible. None of your questions hold any relevance to my beliefs and that's what I've tried to say. I'm sure we all can agree to disagree

sudipta I am not bothered about from where these fragmented ideas come from - Hindu, muslim, christian, jew, budhist, jain, sikh, parsi, or any others. my statement is clear in what I said. everybody at myLot who responded understood it well, many did not have the courage to answer it straight or say they dont have an answer, honestly. those few who came near, i told them they came close to it. when i made those statements, i said it in brief so that your mind do not wander into unwanted, irrelevant facts. but it seems you dont want to face those little facts and reply based on those facts. i prefer to stick to my topic in hand rather than deviating from it. if I do that, I will be making this discussion irrelevant. that is why I keep pointing out that each one is deviating from the topic. agreeing to disagree is an easy way out. i wont object to it. its your choice. i have other choices.

I agree with you that those who want to interpret will do it their way. that is applicable to believers of all faiths. for the facts do not matter. faith or beliefs are not based on facts. Thank you for participating in the discussion.

Yes, there you have it in a nutshell. "Faith is not based on facts." This is the unbridgeable gulf between religion and science. religious faith exists because people believe that something is true even if there is factual evidence to the contrary. But science is based on provable facts.

well, you have the right to choose whatever seems right to you. but your reply is not relevant to the disussion i had initiated. thank you for participating in the discussion.

You are the one that does not understand the nature of God. He could have stopped the serpent from tempting Eve, or he could have made Eve resist the temptation. That, though would have taken away her free will, and she would have been like a puppet on a string. Adam and Eve were competent to resist the temptation, but they chose to give in to satan. You and I are descendants of Adam and eve. We are free will agents. We can chose to believe the God of the bible, or we can reject him. It is your choice. May I suggest that you start reading in the New Testament?

you have put the cart before the horse now. it is god who knew everything about everything. while adam and eve were going to commit the mistake, why god did not intervene as he knew that his creations were not competent enough to deal with it. if he really intended things to happen the way it happned, what is the necessity to punish them later. whatever he wished, it happened. and he should have been happy about it. and see what he did. I did not miss anything important. you did not understand my questions. that is quite evident from your reply. thank you for participating in the discussion.

thats good for you,jilshi. but that does not answer my question. hope you may come back some day with some answers. thank you for participating in the discussion.

Amen! Let's keep praising and trusting God. Afterall, it's not men who will judge us when the appointed time comes.

thanks for participating in the discussion. i would appreciate if you could contribute your views and opinions.

I appreciate your stand regarding defending your beliefs. this is not an argument for the sake of arguing. these discussions here are for sharing one anothers views on various topics. You are right. I am referring to Adam and Eve and did not want to repeat the whole story as it takes lots of time and space. if adam and eve were children to god, then god had a responsibility to protect them. children do commit mistakes. does that mean they be thrown out of the house? he could have counselled them. he could have made them understand why they should not do certain things etc. If god is aware that these things were going to happen, then what is the need to punish his children? god is fully responsible for it, because he knew this will happen and still did not do anything to stop that from happening. but punished his innocent children for his inability to prevent that event. apart from it instead of punishing the satan, he cursed the snakes. why? merely because satan took the form of a snake? in what way does that make all snakes accountable for a deed that they did not commit? why did god not punish satan? Please do not put the cart before the horse. as father, it is his duty to be a good example to the children. do not expect children to be obedient so that father can be good to them. children are ignorant, they know much less than the father and children might do things without knowing what the consequences will be. it is the duty of the father to take care of that. Thank you for participating in the discussion.

your counter query does not answer my question. you seem to evade it with you counter query. either you did not understand what I said or you do not want to understand it. i know that second one is right. so god has impurities? Petrol and Tar example. thats nice to hear. but doesnt that contradict this - there is nothing purer than god. nowhere in bible it says satan is gods servant or assistant. why create this mess in life of misguiding on one hand and then trying to correct it later when you can do things in simple and stright forward way? thank you for participating in the discussion.

I made a statement that god of bible / jehovah is not omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and not compassionate. what is the necessity for a being who is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent to test the two human beings when he knows everything? I do protect my children by all means. children needs protection. you need to tell them what is good and bad. they still do things not of your liking. you cannot punish them for those. its the father's duty to make them understand. it is a difficult task. but losing temper and punishing them is not the way. if my children were disobedient to school master, i know how to make them understand that. punishment is not the way. if the school master put them to test, its ok. if my child is disobedient, i will enquire why it happened - both the schoolmaster and my child. i will arrive at a decision only after that. if my child was disobedient, then its my duty to teach them, and not punishing them. remember they are children. they need to be taught the right way. if my child did not pass the test, its the duty of the school master to see that he teach my child. that is the school master's duty. that is why we send them to school to be tutored under a master. right? i understood what you were pointing at. but hope you understood what i was pointing at through my reply. god of bible erred in that aspect. another statement from me. One thing I could make from the replies you made here. God and Satan are partners in trade. that is what you were insisting. while the priests keep preaching the faithfuls to stay away from satan. Create problem, offer solution. all under one roof. and the helpless ones on either side.

In your topic for discussion, you have averred four statements as evidence to support the inferences you have drawn to come to a conclusion that Jehovah is NOT - Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent. Also, he is without Compassion. In the end, you are asking, “how can such a being be called God? He lacks all attributes and qualities of God.” Is it your query? I think it is more of a statement than a query. You have stated all these things, as if you yourself were present when Satan was tempting the woman. Lol, I see you seem to know more about the duties of Satan and nothing about the duties of God. You seem to think Satan’s duty is to tempt hapless women, and mislead humanity and God’s duty is to protect them. According to you, God has no other work but to go on protecting the children who had been disobedient to Him. All I ask you to do is to place yourself, not in place of God, but in place of father of your own children. What would you do if your children have been disobedient to you their schoolmaster is putting them to test. Would you go and help them copy and pass the exams; or you would just be a silent spectator. God too was a silent spectator while Satan was putting Adam and Even to test. God Himself wanted to see, whether His children would be obedient or disobedient to Him.

you said a lot of things, but not all are relevant to the topic. kindly come back with relevant reply as i feel you can stick to the topic and i know you can answer it. you know something, but strayed away from it. thank you for participating in the discussion.

I have come to the right conclusion. I am not changing my stand.

God knew precisely what would happen. It was a test for Adam and Eve; they had free will, as we all do, and they used it to disobey God. if god knew what will happen, then why waste time on testing those ignorant children, adam and eve? if he knew what would happen, then god is fully responsible for all those happened. then punishing adam and eve was a foolish decision. if god knew exactly what will happen, then he alone is responsible for the whole thing that happened and god is to be blamed for all that happened. but he punished the two ignorant ones. totally biased decision. what do you mean by private interpretation? do you mean that i seek guidance from a biased and misguided preacher who has a vested interest in me not knowing the truth. God has given me brains, and he wants me to use it. I am capable of understanding bible without any external help. there are a large number of interpretations available. about the presence of so many christian denominations, that is not a part of my discussion. i prefer to stick to the topic i started. thank you for participating in the discussions.

if you have not read, then take this as an opportunity to know what you should know. I appreciate your views, but that did not make it an answer to my discussion. i wanted your opinion about the god of bible, and not yours. thank you for participating in the discussion.

whether god allows satan or not, it doesnt matter. instead of answering directly why do you slip into another territory that has no relevance to my discussion. I will stick to what I said in the discussion. i will not entertain any other nonsense, however good it is. this is what many believers do when they are faced with uncomfortable questions or situations. i want honest answers. it doesnt matter even if it hurts my sentiments. but stick to the discussion and what is asked there. thank you for participating in the discussion.

you have not answered to the my questions. if god allowed adam and eve to choose and think for themselves and they chose something they liked, what is the necessity for him to punish them? he should have appreciated their choice and ability to make decisions for themselves. You dont have to feel sorry for what I believe or do not believe. Its for me to take care of that. thank you for participating in the discussion.