Fantastic News for America

Lol, now you're questioning people's patriotism? That's rich. I'll bet you support the Patriot Act too right ladybug? You know, because anyone who doesn't is not a patriot.

awesome for you. The public referendum is great for states that have federal boot licking governments. I have been harping on this for a looooong time now..but this is truly the only way to take back this country and restore a constitutionaly obediant, subserviant federal governemnt...through our states. It is truly the only way.

Lil - You and X can only see words, whereas a true patriot would see the people the words are intended to protect. Go to a cancer ward, and watch people dying. Then see where you stand on your petition.

Maybe some shouldn't be such sore winners.

They're angry and frustrated right now. The lid has been blown off the top of the kettle that has been steaming since the election but that's what you get when folks are fed a solid diet of hatred and fear for over a year during a presidential campaign. Folks say this country is so divided. Ask them why and they talk about the evil democrats but it's really all about Obama. The folks supporting McCain were told over and over again what "real Americans" believe and, following his loss, they couldn't possibly support or agree with anything Obama or the democrats did. They would rather chew their own foot off.

The pettiness blows me away. The same people who are claiming they will be helpless from government tyranny see no problem with their healthcare decisions being made by people other than themselves in the insurance companies. It's almost pathetic, the opposition.

Well, nothing you can say to me is going to stop me from being happy that this bill passed.

I'm sorry to hear about your condition and all, but it's both ignorant and presumptuous for you to believe a Republican has never been in your situation. I know payments can be tough to make, but frankly, you're insurance doesn't sound that bad. I've worked government jobs where I got insurance through the job that cost me more and gave me less. "This bill will final ensure that all U.S. Citizens have affordable health insurance, and anyone can be covered no matter what their circumstances." It's good that anyone can be covered, but there's nothing in the bill that would force them to cover your preexisting condition, they could insure you and cover everything EXCEPT that and you know that if they can avoid paying for something, they will. There's also nothing in the bill forcing health insurance to be affordable. They could charge a lot more than what you're paying now.

Rogue - I am very excited this bill works in your favour, as it will benefit you and many others in need. Contrary to what taskr has said, within 90 days, people who have been denied insurance coverage due to preexisting conditions will be entering into a high risk pool and will be able to negotiate better prices through the exchange. You are paying a car payment and then some for your current insurance premium. I don't think any republicans had fallen hard in the position you are in, as their pockets are so heavily lined, they can easily afford a catastrophe plan. And, obviously, they are afforded the benefits all of Congress receives. There are a lot more who are excited about this bill that have yet to make it to posting, or who don't want to deal with the same drama and nonsense and lies throughout the debating of this. They just want to enjoy some of the relief the passing of this bill brought them.

ladybug, I don't know what to tell you. My state will not be taking part in it (hopefully that is, with enough state legislative support) so it is irellevent to me other than in the context of a broader fight against a unnaturaly growing government. All I can tell you is go read the bill and see if you can find out what you need to know in there somewhere. If all else fails, don't worry, the IRS will be pounding on your door if they don't feel your coverage is "acceptable", I'm sure they may be able to tell you what to get, where to get it and how when they do.

new questions: why is it an abomination? why is it not an abominaton? being nosy, i don't actually have an opinion. yes in general national health services are a good idea but the particulars of this one i don't know.

X - I supported this bill and don't consider it an abomination. But, I would like to know how the transition will take place. It has passed, and I am ready to see it executed, and naturally, this will take time to implement. I want to know step by step what our personal responsibility is to make the transition easy and make it happen quickly.

I do in fact oppose them ladybug...and that is why I'm glad I livwe where I do...we don't have such a mandate in New Hampshire.

And I am sure you opposed the mandate on wearing safety belts. Good for you.

As a matter of fact, I did/do oppose the mandate. And everytime I get on my 2-mile private road, I disconnect my mandated seat belt. And, Xfahctor, it is one of a number of good reasons to live in NH.

Quinnkl, do you think the government owes you health care? Why, and how do you expect the government to pay for it? Ladybugmagic, What is in this bill that is so great?

Bestboy - You asked me what is in the bill that is so great? I must say, the best part is that it placed into law that insurance companies will be federally regulated, and will no longer, quite literally, be able to get away with murder. Neither I, nor quinnkl, nor most people who support this bill, want something for nothing. We want a fair shot at getting competetive pricing, and we want the insurance abuses to stop.

Definitely a great foundation.

Where to begin... It's true that some people already have insurance but there are millions who don't, either because they can't afford it or because they have preexisting conditions and are refused coverage. This group is the one we need to be the most concerned about because the term "preexisting condition" means that they have health problems so they NEED medical care. The people who can't afford private insurance will be helped by the creation of an insurance exchange where their costs will be income based. This way they will be able to afford coverage. Seniors and low income folks who qualify for medicaid will receive assistance with the cost of their medical care (and prescriptions) in the form of direct financial assistance from the government until the donut hole, where they're expected to pay out of pocket, is closed. BTW, I don't know where you got the idea that you can't qualify for medicaid unless you're black or Mexican but, not only was that an extremely bigoted remark...it was incorrect.

Let me put this comment right at the top Mystic. A racist or bigoted statement is racist or bigoted regardless of who makes it. My brother-in-law is a cancer survivor...throat cancer. He can no longer work and he & his wife are on medicaid. He's Italian. A former sister-in-law sustained a serious back injury on the job decades ago and she, too, is on medicaid. She's Irish. Those are just two examples of how your bigoted remark was 100% wrong. There are some people, and I know several, who can't afford it. PERIOD. They don't eat. They are living paycheck to paycheck and there is NO money left over at the end of the month for food, let alone insurance. Please see milkmaid's response above. Oh, that's right, you did see it. Personally, I don't like the mandate much either but I fail to see the connection between this bill and China's one child policy. I've always found that when someone has to resort to extreme claims, they really don't have much to say.

Where to begin... It's true that some people already have insurance but there are millions who don't, either because they can't afford it or because they have preexisting conditions and are refused coverage. I know this. This group is the one we need to be the most concerned about because the term "preexisting condition" means that they have health problems so they NEED medical care. Again, stating the obvious. The people who can't afford private insurance will be helped by the creation of an insurance exchange where their costs will be income based. This way they will be able to afford coverage. There are some people, and I know several, who can't afford it. PERIOD. They don't eat. They are living paycheck to paycheck and there is NO money left over at the end of the month for food, let alone insurance. Seniors and low income folks who qualify for medicaid will receive assistance with the cost of their medical care (and prescriptions) in the form of direct financial assistance from the government until the donut hole, where they're expected to pay out of pocket, is closed. The donut hole should have never been thought up. Whoever did is a moron. BTW, I don't know where you got the idea that you can't qualify for medicaid unless you're black or Mexican but, not only was that an extremely bigoted remark...it was incorrect. No, it's not. It's 100% correct. People just don't want to admit it. You seem to be laboring under some misconceptions Mystic. Yes, coverage is mandated, but there are exceptions. If one truly cannot afford insurance, then they would qualify for a hardship waiver, exempting them from the mandate and any resulting fines. And who sets up this waiver? The government? This is the same government who signed a bill into a law and they had no clue what it meant. Second, the government is subsidizing insurance for anyone making under $75K for a family of four- which means that anyone making less than that gets a break. At the end of the year on their taxes. What happens until then? People will lose their homes and their jobs because of these fines. This is a the first step in a socialist dictatorship. Next, China's one child policy will be adopted and the government will be forcing us to eat what THEY want to keep costs down, effectively banning all McDonald's and Jack in the Box restaurants because SOME people can't have just one burger - they have 30 and weigh 300 lbs. Third, the fines are up to $750 or 2% of one's annual income, whichever is greater. In order for someone to pay more than $750, they would have to make more than $37,500. (and that's not a family income figure, but a single person's income.) The government has no right to tell anyone that they HAVE to have health coverage and then fine them for not having it. You seem to take the stance that if they could afford it, they would purchase it, and that that is true for everyone. It's not. There are tons of people that can afford insurance, and choose not to purchase it. There are tons of people that want insurance, have money to pay for it, and are still denied coverage because of actuary risk tables. There are tons of people that have insurance, need insurance, and can barely pay for it; meanwhile they see their premiums go up and their coverage go down. So because of this the government has the right to force me to pay for coverage or better yet, pay for someone else's through higher rates? I don't know what the whole racist thing is about, but that's your deal. Wrong, but again, your problem. Oh right....it's only racist when whites make that statement. My bad.

Haiti is a far different beast altogether. The relief to Haiti didn't include bribes, loads of BS, and a 2400 page bill that we were told by the Speaker of the House that we have to "vote for it to see what's in it." Besides, the people in this country who are considered "poverty level" don't have a clue what poverty really is. In Haiti people DREAM of achieving what we call poverty.

ladybug, i agree that countries have a responsibility towards their own citizens but haiti was completely different. one issue is an ongoing national one (and highly politicised), and the other an international emergency that almost everybody could see was just that. taskr i agree that haiti, even before the disaster, had poverty far worse than the states and this is a good point. it doesn't mean that real poverty does not exist in your country though.

I agree - I think that it is our social responsibility to take care of everyone. It's weird, because both parties, and our whole country banned together when it came to Haiti, but, when it comes to our own citizens, we decide they are on their own.

Pre-existing condition clauses are not outlawed. Companies do have to accept people with pre-existing conditions, but they can refuse to cover the condition.

Let me guess, Andy, you haven't read the bill either, correct? Your post contains a lot of misinformation that is untrue. Wouldn't it be better to know the facts instead of being spoon fed garbage like a baby goat?

Yes, yes, we know. And the world is coming to an end. Do you who oppose it grab on the newest fear tactic as they come along? First it would fund illegals, that has been refuted, so you dropped that, and latched on to “abortion”, which has been refuted, then you dropped that, and latched on to “we can’t keep our current coverage”, which is also untrue. When you see that insurance premiums won’t rise because of this, given that those with preexisting conditions are entered into a high risk pool of their own, what will you latch on to next?

This bill is not perfect, but, we will regain women's reproductive rights as we continue to better it. This is merely the foundation at this point, but as we continue to build on it, things will fall into place. The elders are not at risk - that is just some of the hogwash the republicans tossed around to try to gain support in opposition to the bill.

I understand this is in the beginning stages, and is an incredible foundation. As early as 90 days from now, a high-risk pool will be set up for people with preexisting conditions and immediate steps are being initiated to close the doughnut hole for the medicare recipients. The more universal aspect will be felt in the years to come, but the two highest priorities will be met swiftly.

I am sorry - I overlooked your comment with all the drama this thread has attracted. Your last sentence says it all: "I am all for capitalism but I am not for companies lining their pockets while killing people." This goes for more than just the insurance companies. It applies to the biggest polluting companies, etc. As a business owner (you mentioned you have employees), what are your feelings on this reform? I understand small business owners will be given tax credits as an incentive to help offer their employees coverage. We really haven't explored this aspect much. I would love to hear what you think.

I know that this has some good things in it but I am just so mad at the insurance companies that they still are not going to be held responsible. I cannot calculate the money I have paid for heath care through the years and they still don't cover me and my employee's. It will make them start paying but I wanted much more for a group of people that have made fortune's off the backs of their fellow Americans. I am all for capitalism but I am not for companies lining their pockets while killing people.

You are a real Goody two-shoes! I will give you the definition so you will not have a problem understanding what I mean. Meaning Someone who is virtuous in a coy, smug or sentimental manner

This paves the way to only make it better. It lays out a great foundation, and doesn't yield to any more delaying games that republicans have imposed throughout this entire debate. I get happy about progress, and to see we overcame the republican obstruction, and will continue to do so time and time again. Other countries are congratulating us. I welcome your onslaught, because you can waste all the negative energy you want. Those supporting the bill will put positive effort forth and pave a better way for our country. You can whine and even poke fun at me, but I am doing what is right - caring for citizens with no delay.

I am actually the real deal, whiteheather.

That may very well be the only reason those capitalist republicans object to it. But, then again, there could be more reasons. I mean, you can cite that America isn't rich and not be a capitalist pig, right? We're trillions of dollars in debt. Or how about the fact that we have more illegal immigrants than Australia has citizens on the entire continent? Or that America has more non-taxpayers than Australia has citizens? Or that we have more under-employed than Australia has citizens? But, I know: American capitalists want to kill the poor folks like Hitler. It's not like we're number-one in the entire world, WELL above Australia, with charitable donations and disaster relief. As I said in my comment, I realize I'm barking up the wrong tree. And I'm not picking a fight, either, but I do think most people simply ignore the differences in America to other places around the globe. We honestly, seriously, literally cannot afford to be an entitlement society. Our society is exponentially larger than every other entitlement society on the planet. It's not those capitalist republican scrooges who will be paying for it in the long run. It's the other 100 million men and women just barely getting by who will have to pay much higher rates for another 100 or so million to be gifted healthcare that's barely better than an emergency room visit. But, yeah... save the poor people, the poor people.

That is not quite correct. You have a population of 308 million Of which 48 million live in poverty. That leaves you with 260 million to pay the health bill of the 48 million. By those figures, you are way ahead on Australia and Europe. With 20 million people in Australia, there would not be much more than 10 million of them making a real contribution towards healthcare. As a matter of fact, every country with a healthcare system has its budget running into deficit, and has to make the difference from general revenue, because its citizen don't contribute enough. Countries like France only have 60 million people and get more free healthcare than Australia. No system is perfect, and every system is up for abuse. The guy on a big salary, having to pay big bucks for medicare, will start to go to the doctor everytime he has a sneeze, because he feels he is paying for it. Of course, this defeat the purpose of making the healthy pay for the unhealthy. It is like paying a hefty car insurance every year and never have a crash. What do you do? Crash the car to get value for all that insurance money you have been paying along the years? It is the same with health. You may be healthy today. But in 10 years time, can you predict for sure where you will be? There are dozen of things which can go wrong with you at any tick of the clock.

"That is not quite correct. You have a population of 308 million Of which 48 million live in poverty. That leaves you with 260 million to pay the health bill of the 48 million." 48 million live in "poverty." Okay. More than 148 million live in day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck lives that cannot take on higher tax burdens. We are not set up like that, being my point. The problem is, the rich, fat-cat, greedy capitalist pigs will not be the only ones shouldering more taxes for more entitlements. Eventually, it will be everyone who earns money, simply because it will have to be. And I don't entirely disagree with a universal healthcare system. My feeling on it is this: Instead of this administration rushing into a gargantuan overhaul and introducing a new system, it would be infinitely more economically sound to take things a step at a time. More regulations for insurance companies would have been a very small step with giant leap potential in dropping premium prices. Fraud and waste could have been trimmed out of Medicare and Medicaid could have easily been expanded to act as that safety net you're referring to. Regulated and closely guarded private companies could then be allowed to compete in all 50 states, which would drop premium prices even further. I say all of this for one very important reason: Private industry will have to conform or go extinct. It's Darwinism. Whereas with government, they don't have to follow business rules. They can freely run deficits and switch money and mishandle everything (as they're doing right now), because it's not their money. They're not reliant on it. If things go bad, they simply raise taxes and take Janie's money to pay Johnny. Our government has not proven it has the capacity to run 1/6 of the nation's economy - and not to mention it's an aspect which affects people's lives. The entitlements we have are already failures in terms of efficiency, and entitlement states like California are literally bankrupt. As an American, that scares me a whole lot more than what could possibly happen to me in 10 years time. But maybe that's just me. I just feel there were more than a few better ways the problem of uninsured Americans could have been handled.

Social security, incidentally, is a government provided program. My understanding is those on medicare will remain on it, receiving an additional tax rebate and discounts on medication, closing the notorious "doughnut hole" that both parties worried about. I believe that people with an income above $200,000 per year will have to pay more into the medicare taxes, as is fair. This bill was designed to help people in the middle class, as we have programs in place for the extremely poor. When a middle class family earns $75,000 and they get a medical expense for $70,000, they have no where to turn, as they earn too much for medicare and too little to pay for the catastrophe.

My sources must be wrong..I'm gonna have to do more research-I'd heard all kinds of crazy things-especially that it would be giving illegal aliens insurance but a friend says no...and then there's that whole abortion thing.. I'm still in the dark on it all...the details I've gotten were very brief. Thanks for clearing that up :)

I was listening to NPR this morning and a representative from a group that caters to the needs of Latinos specifically stated very clearly that this will not allow for any undocumented immigrant to be involved, and they are not allowed to even pay for their insurance under this policy. Without this bill in place, already 40% of undocumented immigrants purchase insurance. There will not be any public funding of abortions. These are all scare tactics used by the opponents. They know to focus on key words that will invoke mass hysteria, and know people won't usually check for misinformation. What we have is a mix of fanatics, diehard constitutionalists, misinformed people, conspiracy theorists, etc, all working against this, because they are so resistant to progress. This basically regulates the insurance companies now and makes certain they will insure people with preexisting conditions. This helps to decrease waste and fraud, will decrease our deficit, extends medicare benefits, etc. Don't let all the smoke and mirrors fool you. I have been in threads on mylot fighting to explain the greatness in the bill, and others have fought against it. Time will tell for sure, but I am going to try to focus my energy into working for a smooth transition. This will all blow over soon, it will fall into place, and the proof is in the pudding. Congratulations to us for finally joining the rest of Western civilization.