A different view of the Health Care Law
By bobmnu
@bobmnu (8157)
United States
March 23, 2010 12:22pm CST
I was listening to the radio and there was a man from the Heritage Foundation (a Conservative Group). This person is a Health Care specialist at the foundation. He pointed out that the difference between this bill and the one that President Clinton proposed was that Health Care Experts from Liberal foundations helped write the bill. This bill was written by the politicians and is made up of good ideas but nothing is holding it together. There is nothing to make sure the different parts will work together. As this person pointed out he sits on panels with other experts from many different think tanks representing all different views.
One example is the requirement that you buy insurance or pay a fine of 2% of you income up to the price of a Insurance Policy. If you have a family policy that costs you $12,000 a year what do you do? IF you are the very rich (Making $250,000) you could pay the fine of $5,000 and pocket the $7,000 until you or one of your family members become sick or injured. If it will cost you less than $7,000 you pay it, if it is more then you buy the insurance. I know a young family (parents are age 28 and have 2 children) where both parents are employed and make about $100,000 a year. Their Health Insurance costs about $14,000 per year for a family policy. The fine would be $2000. They figure that they use about $1200 to $2,000 per year of the insurance. If they drop the insurance and pay the fine they would save about $10,000 per year. If they have no major health expense when they retire at 67 they will have over a million dollars. If they get sick they simply save the $2000 and buy insurance and drop it after they recover. This is just one example. What will happen when large corporations and small business start to cut expenses by dropping Health Coverage.
How is this going to save the government money?
3 people like this
9 responses
@laglen (19759)
• United States
23 Mar 10
What will happen when large corporations and small business start to cut expenses by dropping Health Coverage. How is this going to save the government money? Including jobs. Every body will become an independent contractor. Then we will all be responsible for getting our own insurance or paying the fine. Her eis the money maker for the government.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
24 Mar 10
You are forgetting that once we all start to work for our selves that the government will have to subsidize the insurance or provide it for us free until we are able to make enough money. There is no way the government is going to make money on this deal. I just heard that a new estimate that this will cost 2.5 Trillion Dollars during the first 10 years and even more after that. The cost estimates do not include the 16,000 new IRS Agents that will have to be hired to oversee and enforce the new law.
1 person likes this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
24 Mar 10
Bob, I think i phrased that wrong. I admit it will be a mess. My point, not well stated, was that small businesses will not be hiring people. Large business will slow down. Think of seasonal workers, you would have to buy insurance for them as well. In the next couple years we will be farming. Looks like we will be harvesting ourselves.
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
23 Mar 10
The fine is cheaper than the insurance so I do see some people taking that option. After all...they can just go buy it when they need it...drop it when they don't. Save the money in between. I think about how much I have paid in insurance for myself and my family over the years and how little we use it.. We are not getting a good return on our investment. WHne people see how much money they can save...it would may get people thinking. Especially in states' that now have laws making it illegal to be required have insurance..they can drop..not worry about the fine...save the money and then only buy it if they need it.
Gosh...do you think congress knows what a can of worms they opened up with this bill?
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
23 Mar 10
You would actually save a lot of money doing it that way.
Not to mention you would not be paying for insurance would not be using...you would only pay for it when you need it.
The fine is way cheaper than what you would pay for it.
@mslena75 (561)
• United States
24 Mar 10
It is probably going to take some time, but in the end it will save money. Everyone will have to contribute something. Over time, more people will have access to preventative measures to their health, rather than having to go to the ER when they just can't stand the pain or whatever anymore. By the time they take action, it is generally so far gone or even too late to save them that sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent on someone who has contributed zilch and will leave the medical facility holding the bag, which is what continues to drive up costs.
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
23 Mar 10
Health coverage is something I'm not willing to gamble on and I've made a financial fool of myself more than once proving that. I wish I had a few dollars for all the years I paid way more than I used. Of course with this bill I may get a few dollars back under the loss ratio clause. Probably not though since I'll be on medicare long before I can recoop anywhere near what I've lost. lol
I think large corporations will continue to do exactly what they are now doing and outsource jobs to countries where there is government sponsored healthcare. As for small companies, some will benefit from the tax credits being offered while others will do exactly what they are now doing - go under.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
24 Mar 10
They are outsourcing job to business friendly countries that have a willing workforce. If they stay in the US they will face the new Health Care Regulations, have to deal with Unions, environmental regulations, increasing unemployment compensation, Affirmative Action, Social Security Taxes, Medicare Taxes, OSHA regulations, law Suits, and the ever increasing Business Tax(which is one of the highest in the world). I don't know why they would want to leave the USA?
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
24 Mar 10
Well, here's something to read. There are going to be a number of rude awakenings going on pretty soon.
http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1563-20-ways-obamacare-will-take-away-our-freedoms
@LilPixelle (828)
• United States
23 Mar 10
heh, I don't drive, walk pretty much everywhere, Eat decent foods, I'm expecting to stay out of the hospital for a long time. almost 8 years since my last trip to a doctors office.
I don't intend on needing their insurance at all, I want to put my own money away and save for the trips myself. I am pretty sure I don't need to even pay the 2% if my income is below 18,000 (which it probably will be) But if it is above, I probably will take the fine option. Really out of principal more than sense.
I wish I had the option to donate the 2% to a medical school scholarship program though. I like that idea. Middle class is dissapearing and fewer and fewer people can afford to go to school for 8 years. We need more doctors.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
23 Mar 10
Donating to a medical school-what an excellent idea! My nephew is leaving to take up a residency position. Someone can help me with the terminology here-He wants to work with cancer patients and is a cancer survivor himself.
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
23 Mar 10
I think I would be willing to take the fine. It is a matter of principle than anything else. 2% fine would actually be less than what the insurance plan would be. I did not have to go to the doctor all of last year, or the year before that. I have not had health insurance for the past five maybe six years. The last time I went to the doctor I had the flu pretty bad, I paid for the doctor's visit out of my own pocket, and I paid for the prescription of Tamiflu (not sure of the spelling) out of my own pocket. Think of all the money I would have been waisting every year for insurance that I did not need. I just save what my premiums would have been, if I had coverage.
I think the 2% fine would be worth it, but it is also a matter of principle. Health insurance is not like car insurance. The only reason you must have car insurance, is because you could hit someone, or you are paying back a loan for the car. The fact that I do not have insurance is not hurting anyone else, I alone pay all my medical bills.
@mslena75 (561)
• United States
24 Mar 10
In your case, you are right...it isn't hurtful...but only because you plan responsibly and save money in the event that something DOES happen to you (good for you)! But the simple fact of that matter is that most can't or won't do what you're doing.
@us2owls (1681)
• United States
24 Mar 10
This is one more thing that shows how poorly thought out this whole thing was. Obama and Pelosi saw it as a way for them to dictate to the taxpayers and they really didn't give a darn about peoples health. As for the healthcare bill that Clinton proposed - he appointed Hillary as the Chairman of the group studying it - she made it such a boon-doggle that no one could have singlehandedly carried a copy of the entire bill so Bill Clinton just disbanded the group and threw the lot into oblivio0n - thats why a bill didn't get passed when he was President.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
23 Mar 10
Well, good. If folks who don't want insurance can just pay the fine and get it when they need it, that sounds like a plan to me.
As for large corporations and small businesses, there's a tax break for businesses so those who already offer insurance to their employees will benefit greatly. Those who don't will be assisted by the tax break in doing so.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
24 Mar 10
I have not seen the language in the law but I heard that there were limits on the size and number of employees that were needed to qualify for the tax credits. Would it not be in the employers interest to pay the fine ($2250 in the Senater Bill or $3000 in the House version) as most group policies are running between $12,000 and $25,000. The employer couopd pay the fine and drop the coverage and still be ahead by at least $9.000.
