Bill Ayers was a hero.
By ladybugmagic
@ladybugmagic (3978)
United States
May 16, 2010 6:52am CST
I expect this discussion to attract the same sheeple and group thinkers, and those who are blatantly unaware of how unintelligent they are. I expect the same pissing contest and link wars that always prolong my discussions, and say, "bring the drama on, right wing hypocrites."
I am up at four in the morning, in an insomniatic stage thinking about this, and how awful people are. This is mostly in brainstorm mode, and not a formal discussion. It is mostly off the cuff, and I do admit I have more research to do on the subject content. (That is a disclaimer for those of you who want to engage in a link war).
This is basically food for thought.
I watched a very unbiased documentary called "The Weather Underground". I normally take notes on each movie I watch, and then do further research, but this is my kneejerk response, and then I will rewatch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV7GSff4fIA
Many people are absolutely firm in their assertion that Bill Ayers (out of all the members of the Weather Undergound) was a terrorist. They believe that because it makes for an awesome campaign slogan (ie, Palin's suggesting that Obama "pals around with terrorists"). Those who firmly believe Ayers was a terrorist are subject to the lemming/group think disorder, and are usually hypocrites.
They don't educate themselves. They don't realize that the Weather Underground first engaged in as many peaceful protests, sit-ins, and marches as they could, that fell on deaf ears. This movie is an eye opener.
It shows some glimpses of how horrid the Vietnam War was. It shows our military being ordered to attack civilians. It shows that each time the Weather Undergound set any explosions to any statues or landmarks/buildings, they first phoned in the location and advised to evacuate the place.
How many people were told to evacuate Times Square by the alleged car bomber? Oh, none. How many people were told to evacuate the World Trade Centers by the alleged hijackers? Oh, none. How many people were given any warning by Timothy McVeigh (although it is theorized he was just a patsy), but you get my point. And, how many Vietnam civilians were warned about us coming to kill them?
Terrorists don't give warnings to evacuate. They celebrate the death toll and the element of the unexpected attack. They don't express any remorse or regret in accidental deaths related to an explosion, as members of the Weather Underground did. From what I can tell, the only fatalities stemmed from a bomb going off accidentally. It was never intentional.
They did things in retaliation to the carnage in the war, that only existed for profit, they did things in retalation to assassinations of civil rights leaders, and of ten year old children. They brought the Vietnam War home to us, so people could empathize, and not bury themselves in denial, or immerse themselves into their false realities: out of sight, out of mind.
One of the members said something to the extent of "Violence is interpreted differently by different people. There is blatant and obvious violence, and then there is the violence perpetuated by continuing to obliviously live your white life, while inequality and injustice is happening in our own country, and while hell is happening abroad, per our government and corporate America's orders." That is not a direct quote, but watch the movie, and see for yourself what she said.
I read what those opposing my views post. I watch all movies or videos they link to, and ask that you all do the same, to see things from a different perspective, prior to kneejerking your own canned response to me.
I am going to be watching a movie about Hitler's assassination attempts done by his own people. I would not view those attempting to assassinate him as dissenters or committing treason. I would aptly call them "heroes".
The newest saga is that someone stole the controversial cross off the place that commemmorates our war heroes. That cross was religiously segregational, and needed to be removed, but the courts did not rule appropriately. Those who died included members of different religions, and they should have been revered for sacrificing their lives for us, and not forced into an improper burial that opposes their religious views.
Much like we need to repeal DODT, to show the troops that we genuinely support them, and don't try to mold them into a christian poster boy.
There is a $25k reward for any info on those "thieves" that took the cross, but I don't view them as thieves, and don't think any jail time should be served. I view them as heroes, and they had no choice but to take justice in their own hands.
The most ironic part about those who oppose Bill Ayers, or so-called "terrorism" is that they tend to fall in the Palin following group or the right wing. Palin and the right wing support the death penalty. We are one of few countries that execute minors and the mentally handicapped. If a minor is not cognisant or educated enough to sign a contract, how can there be any justification for their execution, rather than life imprisonment?
I guess the truth is that money is at the root of all evil. Nixon kept Vietnam going to have an economical war, the US hired an assassin for John Lennon posing as an obsessed fan, because Lennon helped draw in opposition to the war. Our country has admitted to tapping Lennon's phones and investigating him, which goes to show that an assassination conspiracy theory is not far off. The Weather Underground had to retaliate to violence stemming from the war and the civil rights movements with explosions. It all begins with money, and the allegience between a dirty government and corporate America, and religion is always used to perpetuate anything to help rally the group thinkers to supporting the cruelty.
It's just baffling that the machine still continues. It shows that the mechanism is firmly in place, with the world being run by the three amigos: Politics, Corporate Personhood, and Religion.
Where the hell did humanity go? It can be found in Bill Ayers, a true hero.
1 person likes this
5 responses
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
19 May 10
Frankly, I don't see Ayers as a hero or a villan. I see him as a guy charged with nothing who went underground in support of a wife who was wanted. (All boyfriends and/or husbands should be so loyal) Since those hippy/dippy days, he's been a productive member of society, teaching at a major American University. His second run at the proverbial 15 minutes of fame came in a blatent attempt by the right to discredit the candidacy of Barak Obama. They were clutching at straws and It failed.
1 person likes this
@hofferp (4734)
• United States
16 May 10
"I expect this discussion to attract the same sheeple and group thinkers, and those who are blatantly unaware of how unintelligent they are." I don't usually respond to your discussions because I find you usually misinformed/uninformed/unintelligable and your discussions show a complete intolerance of others' viewpoints/opinions. But I take exception to most of what you've ranted about in this discussion. I lived through the Vietnam War, I lived through the Weather Underground...maybe you should read the real history books before you post.
@ladybugmagic (3978)
• United States
16 May 10
The real history books? Sadly, most of history is hidden. In our day and age, the only way we have access to the truth is via file sharing.
I have been much more accepting of others viewpoints than anyone on mylot has mine. I do my due diligence on subject matters, before drawing any conclusion. This was a bit of a kneejerk post, self-admittedly, but I am sick of watching ignorant people refer to civil rights heroes as "terrorists".
It's kind of like calling Stupak, who is very prolife a "baby killer", because he voted in support of Obamacare, and then playing, "No, no, I said, "IT's a baby killer." as their sorry excuse.
I have proved many people wrong who challenge me, and that does not make me intolerant in any way. Maybe saying it is is easier than becoming introspective on the subject matter, and evaluating your personal responsibility in the matter.
I, too, have to do more to fix the world we live in. No one is perfect, but at least I try to better myself and my involvement in the things going wrong in our world today.
@hofferp (4734)
• United States
17 May 10
"In our day and age, the only way we have access to the truth is via file sharing."
We have an ole saying too, "garbage in...garbage out". And while I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt...I can't, after reading the rest of your responses to posts. You're the one who is "ignorant", I hope a few more years of real life will help you get a better perspective on life.
@ladybugmagic (3978)
• United States
17 May 10
'Tis fairly ignorant to call someone else ignorant who simply disagrees with you.
My perspective on life stems from my health issues. I have been blue, and hardly came to at one point, until the paramedics showed. I was 29 then. And that is the first time since the onset of my seizure disorder six years ago that I was actually scared, despite my having one in the bathtub a few years prior.
When I disappear into unconciousness, I see nothingness, and am unaware of where I went to. There are other things that I won't divulge that have helped shape my views, but the long and short of it: we only live life in this body once.
We all know nothing of the hereafter.
Given that, we need to live in a just society, and achieve world peace, and, three human-made problems have occured so we all have to fight just to live.
Religion - human-made.
The Monetary System - human-made.
Politics - human-made.
Corporate America, the game of politics, and relious zealots all make this world very inhumane.
I will feel the same way ten years from now, and fifty years from now. I am still learning more about who I am and I think given more research and more time, I will come to some firmer choices and outlooks, but leave room for evolving.
I think the more I mature, though, I will draw further and further from the right wing.
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
17 May 10
By your logic if the Tea Party rallies and protests go ignored, it'll be a-okay for them to start throwing molotov cocktails at the sides of empty federal buildings. I know that isn't something you'd support. It isn't heroic, no matter who does it.
Bill Ayers was a terrorist. He served his time, and hopefully he saw the error of his ways, thus his slate is technically clean. Your political message going ignored does not justify destroying things to get yourself heard regardless of whether or not their empty. Destruction for the purposes of making people afraid, or making people listen, is the textbook definition of terrorism.
No one has to resort to anything. They choose to.
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
17 May 10
[i]"The difference between the Weather Underground and the Tea Party is that the Weather Undergound had a genuine goal that was to help all people achieve equality and to stop the violence in Vietnam."
[/i]
Which doesn't justify their actions. It actually devalues their message.
My logic is not "If you are not heard, blow something up." My logic is, "If you are doing everything in your power to stop injustice and needless violence, and you are not heard, then you have no choice but to resort to extreme methods."
The two concepts are the same thing, and differ only in detail. In the end you are supporting violence when all else seems to fail, which I find disturbing. The Weather Underground was anti-US imperialism (among other things), not anti-violence (needless or not). Their actions show us this.
I can see your point, to some extent, but I can't agree, or even fathom why you could agree with such militant measures.
I question whether you truly agree with the actions taken by the Weather Underground, or if you are simply being confrontational for the sake of it. You begin your post by insulting the intelligence of those who disagree, and then stereotyping them into a particular segment. I can't take your thread seriously. It feels almost like you wrote it to "stick it" to the those on the right. Your vitriol and disgust you display in this thread for those who think differently from you is not unlike the qualities of the Tea Party you seem to dislike. I wonder if you realize this?
@ladybugmagic (3978)
• United States
17 May 10
Ayers never served jail time. The charges against him were dropped because of illegal methods used by the feds in catching him.
The difference between the Weather Underground and the Tea Party is that the Weather Undergound had a genuine goal that was to help all people achieve equality and to stop the violence in Vietnam.
The Tea Party is made of random splinter groups that shout racist obscenities and absurd hypotheticals about communism or other such nonsense. Not one positive thing has come from the Tea Party. They are divisive and ignorant.
* Did you watch the movie I linked to? It's quite informative and can outline exactly why things got to such an extreme level.
My logic is not "If you are not heard, blow something up." My logic is, "If you are doing everything in your power to stop injustice and needless violence, and you are not heard, then you have no choice but to resort to extreme methods."
The tea party does not do either of those things. As I stated before, they are divisive, and ignorant.
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
17 May 10
Personally, you lost me (and probably a lot of readers) with your government-conspiracy-to-kill-Lennon argument. Wacko conspiracy theories do little for your credibility.
When an organization uses violence and bombs to try to instigate fear and sway opinion through fear then it is terrorism. It doesn't matter if you agree with their political aims or not. They broke the law, they are criminals.
You forgot to mention all the bank robberies. Robbing banks is hardly lofty idealism, but you can think what you like.
BTW, I have it on good authority that it was Elvis and Ann-Margaret who hired Oswald to kill JFK.
@ladybugmagic (3978)
• United States
18 May 10
I do believe that Oswald was a patsy.
The US government tapped John Lennon's phones, followed him, started deportation procedures, etc. An assassination attempt is not far off.
I watched a great movie called "US vs John Lennon". I put the link to the trailer below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTfyVYqYL90
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
17 May 10
so from what I am getting from your post and the conversations held with other posters....you think it is ok to us violence to get a message across...as long as "you" agree with hte messaage. Scarey.
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
17 May 10
So your thoughts are "do what I say and no one gets hurt"....wow...can you say terrorist and dictator? How about "fringe" or "dangerous" or "crazy".
I believe in people having their voices heard....but I will never agree with using illegal or violent means to get what you want done or so people pay attention to you.
The "end" does NOT justify the "means". And if you have to think of it as the end justifies the means......then you don't need to be doing it in the first place.
@ladybugmagic (3978)
• United States
18 May 10
You missed the entire point of this post.
Please watch the movie I posted and then offer some views. While the Weather Undergound truly wanted no harm to come to anyone, some casualties occurred.
But, please, compare those to the things that they were protesting. What the Weather Underground did was the far lesser of two evils. Vietnam and inequality were horrid and deadly.
The Weather Underground had to resport to extreme measures to fight against powers that only responded to and with voilence. And, again, their intention was never to harm anyone.
@ladybugmagic (3978)
• United States
18 May 10
And what we did in Vietnam was highly illegal, highly violent, and highly profitable.