Florida Gov. Crist Vetoes Anti-Abortion Measure

That's exactly what it is...emotional abuse by legislation. The Pro Life folks might think it's fine & dandy because it addresses something they're against but I'm sure they'd be the first one's screaming if the shoe was on the other foot.

I agree that women should know what they are murdering. Abortion is wrong, in my opinion. But to charge them the cost of an ultrasound when they are probably murdering their babies because they can't afford them is ridiculous. Where have you been living?! Of course ultrasounds cost that much. The payments on the machine, cost of the technician doing it, office rent, staff salaries, etc. make ultrasounds out of the average person's means unless they have really good insurance. And with nearly 23% unemployment nationwide (when accounting for those who've quit looking for work, who are in part time jobs, etc) nobody can afford such an expense. I agree that women should understand exactly what they are doing but charging them for it just isn't realistic.

I can tell you that in Miami we got an ultrasound that was NOT covered by insurance for about $200. That was just last year so I'm not dealing with outdated info here. Now if you do go through insurance I have no doubt that they will bilk your insurance for every penny they can get, but then you're only dealing with your copay at that point. "charging them for it just isn't realistic." Why not? If they have the cash to pay for an abortion they should have the cash to pay for the ultrasound. Abortions aren't cheap so clearly they have some money to begin with if that's their plan. If not them, then who should be paying? I certainly don't want my tax dollars going towards that.

Are any of you suggesting that women as a whole are stooopid and don't know what a fetus is or understand that it's there? This is an unnecessary diagnositc procedure that would have been used for no other purpose than to inflict emotional and financial duress on a woman seeking an abortion. You may disagree with abortions but the government has no business forcing it's way inside of anyone's head.

He actually has never been hard right. He has always leaned a little left. He is just shifting more in that direction. He was previously pro-life, wanted drilling but dissed that, and was set to sign the teacher thing into law till the last minute. Frankly, Florida isn't as prepared for hurricanes as it was under Governor Bush. (Very active season coming up and the odds say Florida will get one.) He has been strangely silent on the oil spill even though it is now in Pensacola. His split with the Republican party shows that he is obviously more interested in his own political agenda than he is in Florida. He is also has the potential to be a Washington crony. He is starting to display all the known traits of one. It will only be a matter of time before his transformation to the dark side of Congress is complete.

I take it you're not in Florida so let me clear up a few misconceptions for you. Crist is still Pro-Life but he's smart enough politically to not put all of his apples in the Pro-Life basket and sign legislation that is guaranteed to rile up a large number of voters on both sides of that issue. Being Pro-Life does not give you license to treat women unfairly...a lesson Marco Rubio obviously hasn't learned while he stupidly stands in favor of that bill. Crist is smart enough to realize that supporting offshore drilling is a bad move at this point in time...another lesson that Marco Rubio obviously hasn't learned. No one who lives in this state supports offshore drilling right now. Exactly how is Florida less prepared for a hurricane then we were under Jeb? The Florida State Emergency Operations Center, the protocols, policies, funding, etc. are still in place. Charlie Crist brought several insurance companies back to the state after most of the previous ones had dropped Floridians and fled the state. He recently vetoed a property insurance reform bill that was geared more towards the insurance companies, saving Floridians from potential rate hikes. As far as being strangly silent on the oil spill, Crist has been on CNN and Fox but mostly he's been all over the local news down here. Residents and visitors are frequently updated on the situation off the coast of Pensacola, informed about water and sediment testing, what steps are being taken & planned and which beaches have been or will be closed. Crist has reassured our state that the other beaches are safe and that monitoring/testing is a 24/7 ongoing process. You don't seem to be aware of why Crist split from the Republican party but it definitely wasn't because he has his own agenda and is not interested in the state of Florida. He wants to be Florida's senator and Marco Rubio was the new kid on the block, gaining popularity in various parts of the state and threatening Crist's slot on the Republican ticket. So, he turned Independent, took some Republican supporters with him, gained some Democrats and now that Rubio seems intent upon ticking off folks down here over several issues, Crist just may have an easy win on his hands. Charlie Crist has been a good governor overall and I don't expect any less of him as our senator. For the record, I hadn't decided between him and Rubio until recently.

As far as I know, and I live in Florida, Crist has never supported this bill and in fact has previously referred to it as "mean spirited". And, yes, he did veto the GOP bill abolishing tenure and instituting merit guidelines right before he officially split from the party. I see a pattern emerging, too, although it's not quite what you see. I see Crist moving farther from the hard right and more towards the center...which, as a moderate Republican seriously considering becoming an Independent myself, is not a bad place to be.

I agree with you about the cost of the ultrasound, dragon, but strongly disagree with you about the amount of understanding and knowledge that adult women in this country have about pregnancy and the development of a baby. I do not believe for one minute that the general female population is as uninformed as you seem to believe and I know for a fact that this is taught in the schools down here. So, yes, women in Florida do know what they're carrying if they decide to abort.

He's actually running for a Senate seat, but is now running as an Independent due to heavy competition from Marco Rubio who's also a Republican. It's starting to look like Crist should have waited since Rubio keeps shooting himself in the foot when it comes to offshore drilling. Rubio still supports it and, right now, that's not a very popular place to be with Florida's voters.

Good for him. Why is our country ok with women not having the same rights we would give anyone else.

What *medical* reason do you believe makes the ultrasound necessary? If there is a *medical* reason for having one, that's one thing, but requiring an ultrasoud per government mandate for no other purpose than to subject a citizen of this country to emotional duress is wrong. It's an unnecessary intrusion into someone's personal life...and body...by the government and, again, no one would support this if it wasn't focused on abortion.

I agree, this is an emotionally charged topic on both sides. You call my argument of emotional duress weak yet you actually reinforce the view that this should be inflicted upon women who seek an abortion for the same emotional reason, not a medical one. "if the woman isn't prepared to see the living entity that she is choosing to abort...maybe she shouldn't do it." You just differ when it comes to who should be responsible for doing so. The excerpt from the Hippocratic Oath that you quoted reinforces my stand on unnecessary emotional duress. The woman is the patient, not the fetus. For many if not most women, the decision to abort is a difficult one so no ethical physician would prescribe a regimen that includes the emotionally detrimental experience of looking at an ultrasound image before performing the procedure. This does nothing to change the circumstances that lead to the patient's decision to terminate the pregnancy and, in fact, does do harm.

I never said there should be a government mandate. I agree with the unnecessary intrusion argument that you make. "IMHO the ultrasound is something that doctors should require ethically. My feelings on government involvement in people's lives don't changed, whether I agree with what the person is doing or not." -Me in my last post. No offense, but your misinterpretation of what I said is a classic example of the emotionally charged reaction to this topic on BOTH sides. Here are the potential physical problems from having an abortion: http://www.americanpregnancy.org/unplannedpregnancy/possiblesideeffects.html In my opinion, your argument of "emotional duress" is weak because if the woman isn't prepared to see the living entity that she is choosing to abort...maybe she shouldn't do it. PTSD? Once again, just my opinion. As I've said twice now...I don't support the government intrusion into people's personal lives. (though I understand the Pro-life argument that it's someone else's life that's effected) But IMO doctors should be ethically responsible to do make sure the pregnant woman fully understands what she is doing based on their Hippocratic oath. "I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone." -excerpt from the Hippocratic oath.