Banning Sharia Law
By laglen
@laglen (19759)
United States
June 15, 2010 6:42pm CST
Has your State banned the use of Sharia Law yet? Oklahoma is working on it. Oklahoma State Representative Rex Duncan introduced a measure calling for an amendment to their Constitution that would ban the use of Sharia Law or other International laws when making judgments.
Rather than having a problem with the issue, Duncan says this is a “preemptive strike”. With Judges in other states and federal courts citing these laws, they will be proactive.
The amendment would require courts to keep to the laws of the U.S. and state constitutions, as well as federal and state statutes. It would stop the courts from considering "the legal precepts of other nations or cultures,".
I wonder what Obama will make of this?
3 people like this
12 responses
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
16 Jun 10
I don't know if Missouri has or not. I will certainly look into it. I agree with doing this. I have heard that in some schools in California, the Muslim children are allowed to leave class for their prayer times to pray in a room set aside especially for the purpose. The same ACLU that banned prayer by Christian children in public schools supposedly forced this upon the California schools. Like I said, I heard this. Haven't investigated it. Many conservatives have spoken out about the Islamification of our society. Europe is having major problems with just this sort of thing. I agree we should be preemptive. I've also heard news reports of Muslim fathers demanding the courts here return daughters who have run away and claimed they were being abused. And I've heard of suspected honor killings as well.
2 people like this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
16 Jun 10
metallion -
http://www.americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=3061
New York, absolutely forbid public schools to allow religious worship—even after regular school hours and during periods when the school buildings would otherwise be vacant
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/schoolprayer.html
In Wallace, the Court, voting 5 to 4, held that the amendment to the Alabama moment-of-silence law lacked a secular purpose and struck it down.
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
16 Jun 10
You are misinformed on several counts.
First, the ACLU hasn't banned prayer by Christian children and the proof is that prayer is not banned from public schools -- children are free to pray all they want so long as it doesn't disrupt class. What is banned is a public employee such as a teacher at a public school leading the prayer, or a prayer being mandated at a time when participation would be mandatory or non-participation would be onerous.
Second, the schools already accommodate Christian children in meeting their religious obligations by not having school on Saturday and Sunday, when Christian children are supposed to be in Church -- which one being a function of their particular sect. Allowing Muslim children to pray at the times mandated by their religion is the exact same accommodation already made.
Muslim fathers may well demand the return of daughters who claim abuse, but that doesn't mean that the courts are heeding those demands. More than one "men's rights activist" has demanded that a court dismiss their wife's divorce suit on the grounds that Christianity requires a woman to submit to her husband, and that's gotten exactly nowhere as well.
1 person likes this
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
16 Jun 10
The America Magazine link is not an example of students being forbidden to pray at school, but of a Church attempting to use a school to hold it's services. If Bronx Household of Worship includes students who attend MS 206B and those students wish to pray during school, no rule prevents them so long as it doesn't disrupt class.
The UMKC link is not an example of students being forbidden to pray at school, but of the State being forbidden to designate a time for prayer -- and if you don't think that a "moment of silence" is a call for prayer, you're kidding one of us. Any student in Alabama who wishes to have a moment of silence has ample opportunity to do so.
1 person likes this
@Sonia3 (21)
•
16 Jun 10
I can see the justification of banning Sharia law. When you're in a country you have to abide by the laws of that country. If you disagree with a law you should be able to exercise a democratic right and campaign to change those laws (which obvioiusly doesn't mean that whatever law you campaign to change will be changed but you should at least be able to try) but to apply laws that contradict the laws of the country you're in is wrong. If you are a muslim and you want to follow Sharia law then do so, as far as I understand (I'm not American) America is a free country and if someone wants to live by whatever their religion tells them they can do so as long as it doesn't break any existing laws in that country.
However, the problem I have is banning the use of international law. There are certain international laws that the USA are bound by and these should continue to be upheld.
2 people like this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
17 Jun 10
I have no problem with "international law" so long as it doesn't conflict with our law. The minute it does, it's illegal to use it here.
Maggiepie
“All government, in its essence, is organized exploitation, & in virtually all of its existing forms it is the implacable enemy of every industrious & well-disposed man.” ~ Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)
1 person likes this
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
18 Jun 10
The extent to which international law has relevence in the US is the extent to which the US has entered into treaties to obey those laws. Per Article 6 of the Constitution, ratified treaties are part of the law of the land.
1 person likes this
@peavey (16936)
• United States
16 Jun 10
It doesn't make sense for us to abide by the laws of another nation on our own soil, which is what Sharia law would be doing. I'm glad Duncan is working on this and I hope and pray that he succeeds.
Obama... well, if he didn't like Arizona's illegal immigration law, he surely won't like Oklahoma's freedom from foreign laws law.
1 person likes this
@faisale83 (198)
• India
16 Jun 10
it's not one particular countries low , i think it's rule and regulations for a religion. It's the freedom of using there believe
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
16 Jun 10
[i]My answer to that question is in my sig.
Maggiepie
"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." ~ Rhett Butler to Scarlett O'Hara as he leaves her.[/i]
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
17 Jun 10
SOLEMN: Oh, I still do, but I see no point in wasting my breath on what BO thinks, which was Laglen's question was about...
Maggiepie
“All government, in its essence, is organized exploitation, & in virtually all of its existing forms it is the implacable enemy of every industrious & well-disposed man.” ~ Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
17 Jun 10
LAGLEN: You misunderstood my comment. I care a great deal about the unconstitutionality of allowing non-US law be used here. What I don't give a tinker's dam about is what BO thinks about anything, as the guy is a completely anti-American twit. No matter what HE thinks about anything, I will still defend OUR law tooth & claw from his & his ilk's insidious Marxism.
IOW, I will never give up, whatever he does.
Maggiepie
“All government, in its essence, is organized exploitation, & in virtually all of its existing forms it is the implacable enemy of every industrious & well-disposed man.” ~ Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
17 Jun 10
A lot of states are doing this as a "pro active" about the issue. Especially after the UK just let Sharia law into their civil court systems...shocked the heck out of a lot of people and countries when they did that. YOu can imagine.
Also they are trying to push back against the world court too. During Bush's years the world court and Texas got into it about a inmate that was being executed. the world court tried to tell Texas what they could do...Texas basically told them where they could stick it. But it did worry a lot that the world court even tried to tell us what to do.
I don't have any problem with it and I think all states should have it on the books.
1 person likes this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
17 Jun 10
Americans of a particular mind set are convinced that Britain is overwhelmed by Muslims instead of having approximately 2%
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@Sonia3 (21)
•
17 Jun 10
Since when did the UK allow Sharia law into our courts?
As far as I'm aware (and law is part of my profession so I can't imagine that this kind of law changed without me knowing but it is possible) the only way that Sharia law is used is that we allow meat to be prepared in the way that muslims require and we have specific financial products for muslims.
1 person likes this
@Makro74 (591)
•
16 Jun 10
In the first instance, after reading this from outside the US, I did not realise that Americans had Shariah Law anywhere. I thought it is governed federally and state locally via the law developed through the courts and the constitution and the respective legislative authorities. SO where does Shariah Law come - the country is not Muslim so where does even apply?
But, in any case - American constitution is a free and demecratic society which preaches freedoms of all religions and practices. Therefore, religous practices must be respected and protected BUT not attempted to forcibly inflict on others. For example, it is out of mere respect for religion that Muslims may attend prayer if the majority of the classmates are Muslim. But Muslim's won't have a right, simply because they live in a non-Islamic country.
Following from this, Muslims and non-muslims need to understand the seperation of religious leadership and political. Muslims are ordained that they have a duty to live within the laws of the land in which they reside. The land constitutes a nation governed democraticatically by the will of the majority of the people. Therefore, if the Muslim population is a minority, then Shariah Law is out of the question. And even if in a majority Muslim state, shariah law would on the most part apply to Muslims, and not to non-muslims.
But, the way to solve such differences is by not to look for flaws and politicise practices, but rather have mutual affection for each others beliefs and understand why the beliefs are such. No agression or threats should be used by anyone when discussing such topics. And nobody should be offended so easily and introducing prejudice to guide their opposition.
Terms like, Islamification should be wiped from the minds of peace lovers. People should refrain from 'them' and 'us' kind of mentality.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
17 Jun 10
This Sharia law has not been considered in Canada. Just today a Muslim Father and Son have been sentenced to 20 years for the honor killing of their daughter and sister who refused to wear the hijab. The girl wanted to dress like her school friends, and refused to give in to her family beliefs. This proves to Muslim Immigrants living in Canada, that there consequences for disobeying Canadian Laws, while living in Canada. If they don't like it, they are more than welcome to go back to Pakistan where they came from!
1 person likes this
@skysuccess (8857)
• Singapore
16 Jun 10
laglen,
Being a non American, I feel that there is some justification in abolishing the Sharia law when there are conflicts to the country's sovereign law especially when it is actually encouraging double standards and most of all confusion to the community and country.
Above the extremities of cutting of limbs and stoning for certain crimes and perpetration, I feel that this fight is necessary for issues like unequal treatment of women in inheritance, dress and independence. Issues which conflicts with international and sovereign laws concerning marriage, polygamy and personal conducts where it is actually pushing people into conforming into Arabic ways.
No offense to the Muslims here and as the old adage goes: "When you are in Rome (USA) do what the Romans (Americans) do" and NOT what the Kingdom of Arabia does.
1 person likes this
@skysuccess (8857)
• Singapore
16 Jun 10
laglen,
My exact sentiments here.
Also, I have an article written by their own and it does address a worrying concern about conflicting with a country's sovereignty and sovereign laws.
Read more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/jul/01/sharia-courts-islam
1 person likes this
@epicure35 (2814)
• United States
17 Jun 10
We had better start doin something to protect ourselves since our own government will not do their sworn constitutional duty to do so. Duncan is right and every state should move before it's too late, because Britain's almost gone under by allowing sharia law to rear its ugly head. Every single state should do what OK and AZ are doing in each and every area.
Obama and henchman Holder will, of course, try to threaten and demean any who do the right thing for the country he hates and has promised to destroy. Remember, these horrid, scummy gangsters represent terrorists, give them our Constitutional rights and take them from us, will not allow us to call them what they are, and the monster usurper has put passionate, avid Muslims in positions of power in the Dept. of Homeland Security. Obviously, the Homeland Obama wants to keep secure is/ are the 57 Arab States to which he has allegiance, not the 50 United States of America of which he knew not the number when he made that reference in another of his inglorious speeches.
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
16 Jun 10
I'm glad things are going so well in Oklahoma that this is an issue a legislator has time to think about. Which US courts are basing rulings on Sharia?
And what's with the lack of ambition? Why not forbid rulings based on Torah while we're at it?
In any event, it's redundant: The Constitution enumerates the law of the land in Article 6, and Sharia isn't there.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
16 Jun 10
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/obamas-top-legal-pick-sharia-law-could-appy-in-us-courts/
[i]JUDGES should interpret the Constitution according to other nations’ legal “norms.” Sharia law could apply to disputes in US courts. The United States constitutes an “axis of disobedience” along with North Korea and Saddam-era Iraq.
Those are the views of the man on track to become one of the US government’s top lawyers: Harold Koh.[/i]
As I stated, this is a proactive step.
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/intro-to-islamic-family-law-in-us-courts/
Who can deny sharia is creeping in the U.S. when law schools are writing case studies and researching the topic of sharia law in our courts? Below is an abstract of one such research study,
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/saudi_sharia_laws_applied_in_us_courts/comment-page-1/
parties entered into a contract that provided for Sharia arbitration; the courts considered challenges to the arbitral process, and upheld the awards. The third case involved a contractual provision expressly stating that disputes about the contract would be resolved under Saudi Arabian law; the court then dutifully investigated what the Saudi rules (which are built on Sharia) would call for, and rendered judgment “based upon this Court’s review of various academic texts, the testimony of the experts, the submissions of the parties, and the Court’s understanding of the fundamental principles of Islamic law as they would be interpreted by a court in Saudi Arabia.”
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
17 Jun 10
ADEQ: In this country, for our use, OUR law trumps everyone else's. Period.
Maggiepie
“All government, in its essence, is organized exploitation, & in virtually all of its existing forms it is the implacable enemy of every industrious & well-disposed man.” ~ Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)