What does this verse mean to you?
@freethinkingagent (2501)
August 15, 2010 10:06am CST
Can we discuss this verse and its meaning to you?
Isaiah
Chapter 9:5
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Ki Yeled yulad lanu Ben natan lanu va'tehi ha'misrah al Shichmoh va'yikra Shmoh Peleh Yoh'etz El Gibor Avi-ad Sar-Shalom.
2 people like this
3 responses
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
15 Aug 10
Your translation is a bit odd...This is from the JPS Hebrew English TANAKH Jewish Publication Society Philadelphia 1999...
For a child has been born to us,
A son has been given us.
And authority has settled on his shoulders.
He has been named.
"The mighty G'd is planning grace;
The Eternal Father, a peaceful ruler"~
You have the Hebrew correct, but you have not added any punctuation....this changes the meaning of the translation don't you agree?
The TANAKH that I used is the one that is very common and most acceptable. It has Hebrew on one page and English on the other.
This verse is written in the present tense. It may be a prediction...If it is, it is it is one that is looked for in the very near future...It is not the christ figure as christians use this for. It is so tiring to constantly see the TANACK torn to bits to suit their needs and then tossed aside as the "old testament", "a worthless rag"
It is most likely a prediction of our Messiah...The Jewish Earthly King who will rule the earth for a millennium...
Shalom~Adoniah
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
16 Aug 10
Thank you Adoniah,
Yes I guess improper punctuation will change the translation.
But you have hit on what I was wanting to get at. Is this prophecy, or something that has already happened. This is the discussion I wanted, is it a fulfilled prophecy of a past king of Israel, or a future King Messiah? Of Course I have my own notions, but I wanted a discussion on other possibilities. I stated the translation this way purposely, as most Christian Bibles translations have this future tense and not present tense:
For a child 'will' be born to us, a son 'will' be given to us;
And the government 'will' rest on His shoulders;
And His name 'will' be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace
You have translated it present tense as to why I have also posted it in Hebrew, So the question is then, when has it or will it happen, and to whom is it referring to. If the tense of the verse is changed, and nobody knows the difference then the translation is flawed.
And you will never hear me refer to the TANACK in any disrespectful way.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
17 Aug 10
Adoniah, "It is not the christ figure as christians use this for." Well, why not? Many bible scholars have taken the view that it does indeed mean that
all the best urban
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
16 Aug 10
Sorry Free, I had just come from another discussion where the Bible was being torn asunder. I was not referring to you. I stated that you had the Hebrew correct. It was the translation that was off...I did try to find your source for the translation as you did not reference it. I do not have as many sources as I used to and have to rely on the Net now. Too time consuming...I believe that it is written in the present tense, but as with all things in the Bible that does not necessarily mean that it is happening at that time. Maybe in that generation...but not set for thousands of years in the future or even hundreds.
I do not think that we are meant to understand everything in the Bible until the right time arrives. It may not be the right time....or we may not be the right people.
Shalom~Adoniah
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
15 Aug 10
This verse was written thousands of years ago, by a person who may or may-not have had a University Education at the level of Second Grade Elementary School in today's world. This writer could have been heavily influenced by superstition and hearsay. Years after this verse was written it was translated several times into several different languages, and subjected to the Religious thought of the age. At this time only God knows for sure what information it was intended to transmit, and She isn't telling!
This verse is hardly worth the paper it is written on, and a cannot be taken seriously by anyone who is not influenced by Religious Fervor!
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
15 Aug 10
as always, straight to the point. Your honest answer is welcome even if we disagree. Thanks Barehugs
@p3ks626 (6538)
• Philippines
15 Aug 10
Isaiah is a very poetic prophet and I have read some chapters of Isaiah and I really dont understand them. But this verse clearly says something about the Savior of the world and that is about Jesus Christ and His gospel and how the whole world is going to be filled with it and people learning and following it.
