Priests and nuns....

Dawny - with your logics - you should have been a magistrate. Many people would have been satisfied with your thinking and good precendents would be set for others to follow. I completely and whole heartedly agree with what you said. Those who want to continue should be allowed to, those who want to leave, should be allowed to. And if they want to re-enter, again they should be allowed to. After all we all change our minds. We cant impose extraordinary capabilities on a few. Its like punishing them for being good!!!

Yeh upar ki baat hai!!!

(it means it is something above Crazy's head!!!)

I have read you questions more than 1 time...but I could not think what should I give response to those questions.....

Actually not forced per se!! I dont recall ever saying that. I just mentioned that some of them are financially backward, and therefore, they become nuns as they are kind of given up by the parents. I agree with your idea, about no child being indoctrined to practice any vocations. But remember, I mentioned she didnt become a nun! She very well might have!! I do feel restrictions on clothes is an archaic rule. Back then, may be it was necessary. Now, I feel it is unnecessary. Moreover, they are doing so much good for the society, so cant we just let them at least wear the colors they like? If doing good for the society is punishable like that, who would want to do good. Hope you understand what I am saying. If you dont like it, you can leave anytime. :) In fact, there was another aspect of it in the Sound of Music. The mother advises Maria to leave. But that isn't happening. Out here, I know of a nun from our religion, who must have spent a few years in belief. But a couple of weeks ago, we went to meet some school principles, and was I disappointed with her over ambitious way of dealing. I wish she had been effacing rather than pushing. There are many into it who in their youth are drawn to the ideology, and then later on in life feel that is not what they should have done. But the order prevents them from leaving because it would reflect inability of the order to hold back, something that might shake the belief of others. As to the pedophiles, vocations such as those of priests are often beyond reproach. So to raise a voice against them requires more guts as there will be other believers who will stand up and say this is not true. Effectively, the child has to to combat the faith to an extent. Unlike this, a work colleague could easily be suspected. Thank you for participating. And you are welcome to discuss this further. :)

Oh ok, my bad. But it still sounds to me like an "unofficial forcing"... As for the clothing rules, you keep saying "we should let them", "can't we just let them". Why are you using a "we"? Are you a nun/monk? If you are and you think the archaic rules are affecting you, then yes, go for it, bring the change, fight for your right. But why should I, an outsider, do something or even care about their rules. It's not like you're being tortured in a monastery (not physically at least... I hope), so your rights as a human being are not broken. As I said, no one keeps you in a particular club, you can always change it and you can always make one yourself. That's the beauty of democracy.

I am not a nun. :) But wouldnt mind being one subject to certain conditions. :) I think I am tortured more outside that nunnery. LOL. Democracy - with unoffical forcing due to financial problems? I need to think it over. And I say we, because I have had nuns select clothes for me, and they didnt select white, gray or black ones. They chose yellows, pinks, and peaches. :) Which means, they do like those colors. So I thought it is such a small pleasure. It doesnt cost us a thing. We cant really ever give them back as much as they give us. But we as a society can certainly encourage them to have those small pleasures. Childish thought, I agree.

the long response makes me laugh. I can't believe I wrote something too long. don't you find my response long. I never responded that long. lol. Going back to the topic. I feel you. Seriously. Life is just not fair to others. Oh, btw, I totally respect your views/opinion. No worries. For your response to letter: A: I guess some people just believe the people that they think can't do harm. Not fair for the child. Those child are little angels. C:I totally agree with you. Orphanages and old age homes doesn't solve the misery. They are humans too. If the parents doesn't want the child. Why bear one. Why dump them somewhere. Here in the Philippines, lately, I realized that whenever I watch the news, there are babies in the dumpster - aborted. I can't believe they could do that. That really creeps me out. As for the old age homes. I guess some people just doesn't have the heart for their families. I don't see the future of me sending my parents to one. I'd be heartbroken.

Mine is longer. But seriously, I just wanted to think it out aloud. And it felt good to have people accepting that my thinking is not all that wrong. :) I too cant send my parent to old age home! I'd get ulcers thinking whether he had his meals ond whether he was being snapped at and such things. :)

Hi trishasantos - you have given the inside view of this life, and I am really impressed. Yes, there are quite a few who feel they are called into it, and go into it happily. I didnt know many of the things you mentioned, and I was only presenting an outsider's perspective. It is you who needs to forgive some of my statements some of which came from ignorance. What I find hard to digest is that when I was 10 years old, my friend who was also 10 years old was washing my dishes, simply because she was poor. I mean, outside, many mothers send their children to work in homes. How different was that? I didnt realize it to be so wrong back then, but the child must have felt the unfair treatment, isn't it? Luckily my friend Joan was allowed to go the way she wanted, which is creditable I must say. I mentioned I was happy with them. They are caring, and fun to be. I remember Sister Andrea giving me special treatment because I had cleared exams consistently. Other girls started saying it was a sin to favor one, and the smart lady that she was, she remarked, Oh no, the lord is going to reward me, because I am motivating you all to do better so that you all have better lives. :) In retrospect, I suspect she was feeling sorry for me that I didnt have my mom, and nobody visited me, but that is a different aspect. I must say I felt loved and cared for. Even though it was a 15 year old apostle who came and fed me when I was having chicken pox. I feel very grateful and my regard for nuns is not shaken. As to pedophiles, I must mention a couple of things that I feel can happen with such institutionalizing. a. It becomes difficult to raise a finger against a priest. There will be believers who will rise against the child, disbelieving the stuff. So the child would tend to shut up, and tolerate rather than do anything about it. This can happen in normal lives as well, but not as frequently. b. Disgruntlement can be there in any human relationship. This is no different. Sometimes, people are forced to put up with what they are uncomfortable, and in process they become frustrated lot, taking it out on others. At times they may become too domineering or overbearing creating resentment in others. c. This is purely my personal feeling but since you know a nun more personally, may be you can get clarification. Can having institutions like orphanages and old age homes, really solve the misery, or increase it? Its one thing to open an orphanage for children who have nobody left following some earthquake or hurricane, and it is another thing to let people leave their unwanted child at the orphanage doors. If they dont want a child, they should not have the child!!! Why dump the child in some orphanage? Likewise, elderly are unwanted because they dont have income, and are often a drain on resources and time. So when people see old age homes, they feel quite comfortable leaving their folk in their, while partying, and spending lavishly on other material comforts. Is this what the mother would have wanted. Kolkatta, the city where mother theresa was, ranks third in the country in crimes against the elderly. The ratio has increased, a bit higher than the ratio in other cities. I dont have the exact figures on hand, but I read them somewhere. That is what got me to thinking that is it not our duty to be good, why should doing good or being good be confined to just a few.

Hi babyEj, is a person really great if there are no temptations to conquer? :) Then again, aren't they human? Why dont we look at them as human beings, instead of attributing extraordinary resolve to them. What may seem right to them at one stage of their life, may leave them dissatisfied at another stage. There are people who have changed their professions, babyEj, after being fully qualified in whatever be their line!!! And people change their spouses as well, very late in life. Why are such people allowed to change their minds, where as young people in such vocation do not get a second chance without the society looking down upon them? I agree it is a special choice. And some of the nuns I have met have been truly extraordinary!!! But there have been others, who, I felt were into it because they had some financial problems, and were left with no choice but get into this vocation for the benefit of the entire family - kind of sacrificial lambs. And then, they do have their way of resenting. I agree charity has many pictures. Why not add a colored one to the existing portfolio? I wish people are given chance to choose - that is all that I am asking. :) Thanks for your participation babyEj. :)

I do find some statement a bit hard to understand here "i look at them human beings they are prone to commit mistakes but they have to avoid it" I suppose that gives us the liberty to commit mistakes if we say "they have to avoid". :) Aren't we forgetting that they are normal people, even if they underwent training when we expect "avoiding it will make them more holy". Why are we forcing them to be more holy? Who are we - presumably greater sinners by your above mentioned statement - to impose that one them? Who are we to expect anything from them if we are sinners, for that would be rewarding the sinners, isn't it? :) A bit complex stuff there. I perfectly agree with you that financial reasons are not right to become a nun, but they often do. :( These are the children whose calling it was not, but they are there and they are unhappy and possibly they make others unhappy within the nunnery as well. Thanks for sharing your views babyEj. Have a good day. :)

Being a nun is a calling, and it is a vocation. They are trained. Along the training stage they were given chances to be or not to be a nun. Yes, i look at them human beings they are prone to commit mistakes but they have to avoid it. And avoiding it will make them more holy. Nuns are said to be holy because of the extraordinary life they were living. If dissatisfaction comes to a nun's life she has to go out because it's a living proof that it's not her calling. Financial resolve or any forms of resolution shouldn't be the reason of a one person to become a nun. It shouldn't be like an orphanage. This wrong thinking ruins the real sense of being a nun.

Are you a priest? You have mentioned all that I thought thanks!!! I agree, they smother the natural thinking and growing pattern of the 22 year old, with those teachings. I wish everybody was happy! But the fact remains, at the other end, married women are also not as happy as they should be, wearing all the colors they want to, and having husband, wife, and rest of the family.

Hi dear, No. I am not a priest. But I know what the priests do. Few of my friends are priests now. Few of my best friends are nuns also. I am not from any of the category. It is anyone's wish to be what they want. It is open to accept what we want to become. Someone want to be a doctor, he studies medicine and become efficient in the area of that filed. Also like an advocate, he studies laws. Like this, here for nuns and priest, (whatever the religion) they follow certain laws pertain to the religion where they belong. After gone through a certain level of learning, they have to follow the path how they are insisted. In case of a doctor and a lawyer, they can change the profession if they don't like after some time and move ahead with something else later one. But in this case, after the study of theology, they have to be in their position as what they are. I know one nun she served as a nun for 17-18 years and got married to one of my another friend. She was above 45 at the time of marriage and the man was aged 32. Now their only one boy child is studding in London for his higher studies. Why the nun left her profession. There were lots of oppositions from the authorities side, family sides and all. But they survived and now following a peaceful life. It is just one case study and there are more. In fact I am not in a mood today and so angry to all. Hope we will meet again ... Regards, Thank-s

Hi ElicBxn, I too felt that it is not fair not granting permission to leave. I dont think it is that orders are afraid that no one would stay. After all, everybody in it has to be maintained and that costs money. I think it becomes a matter of prestige. Once the person leaves, others start questioning, why did he or she leave? If she can lose belief, then may be what is being taught is not so true. Few realize that it is not the belief that the person is leaving, but it is the way of life. :( Theoretically, what you said about clothing is right and beautiful. But practically, it may not be so. They too may like other colors, but may be hesitant to express it may be. May be we can just tweak the old rules a little bit and see whether this is true or not. Personally, I think they do so much good for the society, and as reward we dont let them enjoy the colors that are existing in nature. As to abuse of power, you've shed a different light. You are pointing towards people who want to be cured, and fail to get cured. That is one lot who abuse the authority. But there is also another lot, who is disgruntled with the system, but not having a way out of it all, starts taking it out on juniors, or others. Effectively, it becomes a system. Ever thought about that? There were a few swamijis that were busted like that!!! Hundreds that stay in obedience may be there because they have no choice!!! Germans too remained quiet when Hitler was around. Remember? May be it is very difficult for these people to leave once they get in. And that makes them resort to wrong doings, out of frustration. They know it wont be easy to point fingers at them, as others would stand up for them. This is unlike in the case of ordinary persons. They also feel it is unfair to expect them to be perfect, so they possibly feel they are justified in being unfair. Their faith in god and system has gone out of windows anyway, having seen it all from the inside, possibly suffered at the hands of seniors. In this context, I feel inclined to add one last thing. Out here - mother theresa opened old age homes to help the destitute elderly. More and more people have been throwing their elderly out of homes since then, because they are confident some home like that will provide their parents required shelter, food, and medicines. It isn't as if these people cant afford to keep their parents with them. They are either too lazy, or they have become too materialistic. Whatever it is, the cure is not old age homes. It is making people realize the value of parents, and making them care of their own at least. Isn't it?

Aaleexix, please dont compare nuns to Devadasis. Devadasis of South were, as far as I know, women from poor background, offered food and shelter by the temples, to keep certain cultural activities like dancing and music, alive. What started like that, eventually led to them being sold to highest bidder, and then spending rest of their lives as the mistresses of the person who bought them. At times, the person who bought their virginity would leave them, and they would have to find another master. The only difference is, they remained loyal to one master at a time! I respect nuns, and they come nowhere near this description. Coming to vocation, there is an age - when we all are very idealistic. Isn't it? If they decide to be nuns in that wave of emotion, should they not be given an opportunity later on to move out, if they wish to?

"They love to wear it", dont know that for sure. The nuns bought me pink, peaches, and yellow dresses. Not sure that they want such recognition either. They might want to see a movie or two that I watch. May be I am taking them and their feelings for granted. After all, I dont know the feelings and wants of people close to me!!! How can I say I know what they want? And Bill and Melinda Gates do charity, and yet they dont abstain from anything. Anyway, thanks for sharing your views. :) Its been a pleasur

And we are greater because if we they like to wear pinks and peaches, we say no - you use only whites, grays, or browns. If they like to watch movies or television after a hard days work, we say just sit with your holy book and prayers. :)

I fully agree with you Rahul Sajan. We should not deny them the right to move out, should they wish to do so. :)

Hi sweetie, there is nothing selfish about being what you are, as long as you are not hurting another person. :) Yes, the cause is wonderful. But lifetime seems much too long to be spent away for a single cause. Wouldnt it be better, if each one of us devoted a month or two of our lifetime and got on with our lives, instead of a few spending their entire life? If they truly wanted to all the way, of course, it is acceptable. But if they wanted to change their minds on the way, then also it should be acceptable. :)

Hi ANCACC, I agree. Sister Act was great movie. Reminded me of some of my favorite nuns. Sister Rosetta, Sister Pascalene, Sister Angela, Sister Auxilia. Great people!!! Some of us are fortunate to know that nuns are not really unhappy lot. In fact, I have met more unhappy married women than unhappy nuns. :)