Crime and punishment - of an unjust sorts...

@vandana7 (100280)
India
August 20, 2010 7:11am CST
Ok - this is a bit hard to express so I will need you all to struggle a bit to understand it. Here is a guy, he is married and has these lovely kids, and then he commits a crime - serious offense - murder or whatever, and he is pushed behind the bars. His children are looked down at school, they have to manage their life in less monies, cant get many of the things they want because mommy has only so much monies to manage the show in. And they get teased, for what they have and what they dont. But they arent supposed to fight back - oh no... that is bad. And finally, they grow up, and find jobs, yet to find balance, looking for happiness to creep in from somewhere - even if it is a pub, and again they end up with a record. Where are we going wrong here? Is this supposed to be hereditary profession? Hope I made sense to at least a few.
3 people like this
13 responses
@choybel (5042)
• Philippines
20 Aug 10
I think that this is an isolated situation and that any child can become whatever it is he/she chooses to become, needless to say, rather than inheriting the mistakes of his/her parents.
1 person likes this
@choybel (5042)
• Philippines
20 Aug 10
I guess some children just can't help being the bully. It may be the lack of good upbringing or just probably how he sees himself at the time, the one to do the teasing. I also think that in a community, or make it in society, everybody has their own share of being teased, talked behind our back, or judged by somebody else. I don't think that being teased is an inheritance, although I do get your point.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
20 Aug 10
Letting the bully get away with it - or letting bad upbringing be ignored - dont you think it lays foundation for another possible criminal anyway? And I have noticed one thing, you bully one person, you start enjoying it, and it becomes a habit till some fight ensues, and all such stuff. At least we can specify - not one word on this issue else you will be rusticated or something like that. I feel for the child - he or she would become an introvert. You will never know what is going on in their minds. At least, if financially they could have somethings to be happy about the mind would get diverted. You did mention that such thing would encourage others to commit crimes. I do agree with that. So I want you to come up with something that can give relief to the child. :)
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
20 Aug 10
If the child doesnt inherit the parent's mistakes then why is the child teased?
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85146)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Aug 10
Teasing the children is bullying, and that should be strongly discouraged both in the schools and in the society.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Dawny - we agree on so much!!! I think we are ignoring the child's rights to be happy and healthy here!!! And health does not merely refer to physical health. If we are put through some physical or emotional loss, we rush to the lawyers and seek compensation. When a similar thing happens to the child, we just accept it?
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
20 Aug 10
Vandana! You may not agree with what I am going to write.But, what was the mother doing during those tough days of the children? I can understand the difficulties of the lady in trying hard to make ends meet and struggling through the day to get some income to feed many mouths. But, she might have also tried to give some support and instil some sense of values, and with the help of the eldest child rein in the younger ones . I know it is very very tough and it is easier to pass judgements.But, having given birth to children it also beocmes her responsibility to do her best in getting some sort of cohesion and proper sense of values in the family. We have seen widows bring up their children.Agreed there has been some stigma and it is miserable for the children but if the woman is of exraordinary strength of character this can get mitigated.The solution could have [I reiterate that it 'could have ' come from within by proper direction from the mother in the initial stages.
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
21 Aug 10
Actually Vandana, I wrote that response and felt that it was wrong of me to have written that because one does not know the environment in which one is forced to live.I felt guilty and contacted my lot admin, asking them to delete my post.Who knows ? these two may get deleted later. I feel that it is the environment that is responsible for this . [when I wrote the first response I had a poor lady in mind; she is, a poor vlllager who w as widowed with 4 children when she was 26 and she still brought up her children as decent people.They are poor but they do some honest work of their own]. But regarding so many others it is their surroundings and whatever the mother is , when they are forced to play with and mingle with other deprived children in chawls and poor conditions, they catch on wrong habits very fast.THey lack refinement[the people surrounding them ] I feel terrible for them and at this point I feel that we are all extraordinarily fortunate to have had a good upbringing and proper education. I sincerely pray for them.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Hi kala - there are a few things here which I couldnt express properly I think so I will write again. We have a law in our country that bans teasing widows, it is a punishable crime. Just like ragging and eve teasing is. It is difficult to prove anybody doing it, but nevertheless law about teasing widows is fairly recent. The law was instituted because women who became widows were looked down by the society, and went through mental agony. (There was a movie as well - national award winning one - Kannada I think - I vaguely remember the girl becoming widow in childhood and applying datura paste on her shaven head to prevent new hair coming up). Cant believe we as Hindus were that cruel. Anyway - that is a different story. So if widow's problem is of concern to society, why not the agony of this child who is clearly innocent? Why is society denying the child his or her rights for being protected from and compensated for any agony? That is the first question. And now to your contention about the mother. I accept that the mother should at least work to feed her children. She has financial worries, then a depression like stage as she herself undegoes similar humiliations in her worksphere. We expect her to be extraordinary in bringing up the children. If everybody could be extraordinary in adversity would it really be extraordinary? Some can be, others just cave in.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Kala - there were merits in what you'd suggested as well, but what you mention know is more relevant. :)
@Hatley (163776)
• Garden Grove, California
20 Aug 10
hi vandy first off life is not fair, I wish it w as as we could have been spared the past year and a half. I feel for the mom and children of the man who was imprisoned but that is not an excuse for one of the children to grow up and just repeat what his dad had done. I have seen lots of families of crooks who went ahead, lived their lives and grew u p to be really outstanding people. of course if the mom would really parent and try to take away the sting of their dad having done what he did it would help immensely.It all depends of the people around the crook. Can they go on and become exemplary citizens in spite of their dad having been a murderer? yes they can and sure it will be hard but they will overcome the stigma and thrive. the will to do right in spite of a hard life has to be instilled in the children from birth right on up.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Dear Hatley, you know when I read about your experiences, I feel god looked after me really well. He didnt give me as many problems as you've faced. And yet you talk so many positive things about your life with your husband, any other woman would have drowned in all that pain, but you remain positive. You and Lamby are indeed a source of inspiration I need to thank mylot for. I however had a small doubt. When a person is killed in an acident, or is murdered, whichever way you look at it, advocates file a case against the errant asking for compensation for agony caused to wife, children, mother whoever. Should the child of a criminal - who has done no wrong and is the criminal's child by accident of birth, lose his rights to any compensation for agony being forced on him or her due to inability of the society to control the bullying members? Hope I am getting across to you - the sentence is too long and it was longer. :( Just because the child cant voice his or her agony doesnt mean he cant feel it, isn't it? And if he feels some pain, isn't it the failure of the society? And if it is the failure of the society, should the society not do anything to make the child feel better - what is morally termed as - repair the harm done as far as possible? That is what I wanted to ask. Finally it has come out better I think. Not very good in expressing I guess. :(
@gunagohan (3414)
• India
20 Aug 10
I think, that u are trying to put many new words as possible in your posts and it's clearly showing that u are trying to show yourself as a native English speaker.. Well, now to coming to ur discussion, this problem stays still throughout the lives of the family.. This could be over taken by going outside of the state and creating a new identity for the family and they will grow by themselves .
@gunagohan (3414)
• India
20 Aug 10
I possibly think that i have done nothing wrong saphy
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
20 Aug 10
Guna - Explain - which words are new out there - I read and re-read and again read but I couldnt find a single new word in it!!! And as to family getting new identity - that is what I dont want. Why do we punish the innocent for sins of his or her father? I just want laws against specific forms of teasing with such people being forced to shell down monies which will be used to help these families.
1 person likes this
@saphrina (31551)
• South Africa
20 Aug 10
Vannie, is going to take you out for that statement, guna. I have to see this.
@saphrina (31551)
• South Africa
20 Aug 10
Not really, but as i see it, why do kids turn out bad when they are grown up? Do they really have to be like their parent/parents, just because they were teased and had a hard life. They should know what is wrong and what not. I won't fall for that " i had a bad and hard childhood crap." It won't make no difference to me. If you want to behave like a a$$hole, go ahead, don't try to B.S. me. I have been there, done that and have the mug for prove. Did that make sense to you, Vannie? TATA.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
20 Aug 10
No - I dont want you to. But I want law to do something at least for the child because law says - let 10 bad people get away rather than punish one innocent. So why are there no laws against teasing, and why is there no support for the family financially while the husband / father is in prison? That is what I want to know.
1 person likes this
@choybel (5042)
• Philippines
20 Aug 10
Okay, now I'm confused. You want a law against teasing, although I think there is one or more, but not to kids in school I guess, still there are school policies against teasing or bullying fellow students, is there not?It is maybe just the lack of implementation or support to implement it that is the crime. Now, as for a law supporting financially a criminals' family is something that really disturbs me because I think that if this happens many will be encouraged or at least not afraid to commit crime knowing their family will be financially okay, don't you think so?
1 person likes this
@saphrina (31551)
• South Africa
20 Aug 10
Vannie, no law on that will ever be passed. No matter what the crime is. No law cares about the ones that are left behind. Why should you get a law for teasing?
1 person likes this
@dpk262006 (58676)
• Delhi, India
23 Aug 10
I am not clear on which point, you wanted our reaction?
@dpk262006 (58676)
• Delhi, India
25 Aug 10
That is OK that you wanted to BR to some special user, but s/he did not come in your post, but where is the answer to my query?
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
23 Aug 10
Aww - never mind!! I started a discussion to give a best response!!! But those who give me BR's dont come!!! :(
@Buchi_bulla (8298)
• India
17 Sep 10
Here the mother, relatives and society have to tell the children about the repercussions of entering into bad activities. Show the good picture in front of them about leading a good life and the peace thus derived out of it. This requires patience but it is everyone's duty.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
17 Sep 10
Telling is verbal. If the child behaves well, then he or she should be seeing some rewards for that!!! And immediate the better!!! Before he loses his faith in the system. As far as I know they are ridiculed, and it goes on even in later stages of their lives.
@ElicBxn (63594)
• United States
20 Aug 10
There does seem to be a disconnect in the families of some criminals. Also, there is the "gangs" glorifying crime. Now, I've met kids of criminals who have turned out quite well, because their criminal parent was in jail and his (or her) bad influence is out of the child's life or because they've seen what can happen.
@ElicBxn (63594)
• United States
21 Aug 10
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I'm also saying that the way the criminal is sometimes glorified and romanticized in the media (movies and the like) also adds to the problem
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Hi ElicBxn, we all are different. Some may become introverts, while others will be able to brush it off and make it a grade. But we, as a society, unwittingly contribute towards the agony of a child, and we do need to compensate for that, dont we? What about the rights of the child? Even if they turn out well!!!
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
I agree - media glorifies criminals, leading to this sort of problem for child!!! :(
@vijayanths (7877)
• India
20 Aug 10
All babies are born good. The way they are brought up plays a big role in molding a child. Our society does not encourage children of criminals. Hereditary can also play some role in this. Had I made sense too vannie?
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Actually Vijayanths - long ago - almost 2 or three years ago - there was an article that I came across. Genetic predisposition to crime. Lawyers getting the people out of prison on that ground!!! I really had scathing words for that. So if you get the person out, he kills another person, and that other person's child's life goes haywires, and eventually might end up a criminal as well, shouldn't that also be an excuse? All I am saying is our legal system should understand the implications of any punishment for any innocent as well. And while the criminal should not be allowed to go scott free, there is no reason for us not being civil with the children.
@bhanusb (5709)
• India
20 Aug 10
Yes vandana, this is a sad story. But I appreciate the kids. They were in odd situation. They struggled and managed to face the live. Why they were teased? None came forward to rescue them. Someone can punish anyone whom he or she loves. We all have some social responsibility.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
That is what I am trying to say - it is our social responsibility to mitigate the pain of the child suffering that agony for no fault of his or hers. But how do we go about doing that?
@Aaleexix (2290)
• India
21 Aug 10
All the happening in the Universe a phenomenon of means and end. Life is very critical. In any action there must have a reason behind. Some reasons are easy to describe. Some are hard. A married guy having lovely kid..... looked like a a happy family. But The guy commits crime. In my believe no people are bad no people are good. In every human there is a saint and a devil in him. Now human character is depend how much an individual furnishes him good quality and suppress his devilish quality. Human behavior is slave of circumstances. Each and every human being can commits crime in inevitable circumstances. As your example every criminal is dad, brother, son husband .... what so ever. In humanity ground I feel pity to the criminal. Because they are very weak person and leaned towards circumstances. They are not strong enough to restrain humanity and does something wrong. From outlook we see the life a very beautiful journey. But in fact life is not so easy to live. Some people loose their temper suppressed by some emotion ( like greed, envy, anger, lust.... etc...). They are not mentally strong enough to Carry the human charter. Moreover that reasoning is also another aspect of this. Generally each and every people find some reasoning in him mind in support of their any activity. Most criminal think that their criminal activities are justified. It is very weak reasoning and justification. So in criminal ground they are guilty.... but in humanity ground they are very weak personality. They are depressed or suppressed.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
I agree with your "most criminals think that their criminal activities are justified". I am not sure about the following sentence though. At times, it may be society's failure. We have a legal system that is corrupt. So when it is like that, what hopes has he to get relief? Very remote chance that he will come across the right person. So this can happen, and I wouldnt say it weak reasoning or justification but just temporary aberration - where future implications of bad luck were not thought about.
@Aaleexix (2290)
• India
21 Aug 10
Human nature is very critical. Social system comes later. In society there are always two kinds of people. Some people tends to disrupt social order. So social binding comes to the society. It is right that no system are perfect. And all are changeable with the day. But I feel that there might not come any system that can eliminates the evil from the society. Along with order there must have some disorder. Now the question comes why people affected with criminal mentality. I feel the thre reason behind that..... 1. Extreme desire 2. improper justification. 3. basic instinct ( all the emotions) 4. Depression All are psychological phenomenon. If people enrich there mind with ethical power crime may be prevented quite extent. Normally those people who are psychologically strong, can restrict themselves from committing crime. Because the people who has a strong mentality, he can control over emotion.
@rosebinas (180)
• Philippines
21 Aug 10
May this particular case serve as warning to those who are about to commit a crime.
@vandana7 (100280)
• India
21 Aug 10
Does it really happen that way rosebinas? If so, there were many before who suffered it, and there will be many after as well? How many of such children do you really know?