Fur is murder, or not?

Nice point. I believe in this also. I am more so speaking about traditional aspects, when dealing with the use of fur for products. More like a man hunting down a deer for both meat and hide, as compared to farmed foxes, where they focus on taking only the fur.

I'd think that just using the fur isn't so bad though too. As long as they aren't torturing the animal things are all good. Fur saves more animals in the long run.

Yes, there is a vast difference between killing an animal for food and killing just for the pleasure of wearing their skin.

I agree. Out in the wild, it is kill or be killed. A wolf or mountain lion wouldn't think twice about eating us, if the opportunity presented itself and they were hungry. That is just nature, plain and simple. The natives didn't waste anything. They found a use for every bone, skin and the meat.

wiggles, you are silly. You would just be asking to be eaten.

I'd love to go hand in hand with a wolf or mountain lion, what a thrill it would be :D.

I agree with you Galena, 100%! I also beleive that the fur is to be worn on the inside, not the outside. The 'pelt' is the skin and if treated properly with oils, it will prevent the weather from getting inside, because it has to go through both the skin (hide) and the fur to get to your skin. Animals should never be utilized just for one part and the rest discarded. I think that is abhorrent.

But, fur works better on the outside. It forms a vapor barrier, when the hair stands out all puffy. When you wear fur on the inside, the fur flattens out, and thus, no vapor barrier :(. Animals don't have their fur on the inside, that would be just silly :A

Fur works better on the outside. It defends better against the cold that way, and it keeps the heat in better that way.

For the record, we actually don't need meat to survive anymore. I haven't eaten meat in over 10 years, and I'm surviving and healthy.

You beg to differ that I'm surviving? :P We're not wolves, we're humans, and as humans, we can survive just fine by not eating meat. I think the population of healthy vegetarians and vegans out there are enough proof that it is entirely possible to survive and be healthy without eating meat. Whether or not we should, or we're able to, etc. doesn't matter. My point was only that we don't *need* meat, just as we don't *need* fur.

I beg to differ, we have evolved to eat animals, and so our body requires it still. You wouldn't just go and feed a wolf a balanced diet of grains, fruits and vegetables etc, not giving them any meat. It is needed. Look at your teeth for the answers. Yep, I see some incisors in there.

What do you suggest we use instead of using animals for clothing etc?

There are plenty of alternatives, I honestly don't know where I'd start on such a list. I get by just fine not buying clothing items that are fur/leather/whatever, although running shoes can be a difficult purchase.

Are those clothing items made from synthetic materials, cotton etc?

Exactly. I am more so asking if it is right to use an animals fur etc, not really if it is right to treat them like they do to get the fur. I don't like animal abuse, but I do not mind if a person kills an animal respectfully, to harness its goods.

wow, we agree ;) the fur on the back of my neck sort of raised up...

Yeah, people are all so dependent on others nowadays. I would actually love to be in that sort of scenario to test out my knowledge and skills. I guarantee you that half the people on this site couldn't even light a campfire with matches or a lighter, let alone some flint and steel or friction method.

Those are basic survival skills that I learned as a young child at Girl Scout camp. Everyone should know this, but sadly, you are right. Most people are so removed from nature they haven't a clue and could not survive if someone else did not provide for them. And it is those very people that act as if they are better than the majority of the population. Why? Because they earn the most money. I say we need a big natural disaster, like the one spoken of when God flooded the earth. This will cull the population and only the fit will survive and we can start over with a new set of priorities. The people of value will be the survivors. JMO

Agreed. I find it funny when people say "what good are those skills in this time"; I just want to smack them across the face. They don't realize that they are the fundamental life skills, which you die if you do not have, even in this day in age. Remember Hurricane Katrina, all of those helpless people who couldn't do anything, so they just sat around waiting for help. If I was in that situation, I would have constructed a raft and got myself out of there. I wouldn't have needed to wait around for someone to hand me a bottle of water, I would have purified my own. Society really has become excessively weak. We honor little sissies like Justin Bieber, instead of a battle hardened warrior. I don't know how our values become so mixed up along the way.

Animals also have the same thing for life and valued as human beings.

Interesting perspective indahfth, do animals have souls?

Yes, we shear our sheep flock of 300 here every year, once a year. It is necessary because sheep actually were not made with exclusively wool in the wild. They would not survive if they could not remove their coat on their own. It continues to grow for their entire lifetime, 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year. So, it would get too heavy for them to carry, they would get tangled up in brush and such, and predators can catch them very easily. It is also necessary to shear them because if any manure (poop) gets stuck to their wool, the flies lay eggs in it, which hatches out maggots and will eat the sheep alive. Disgusting, but true.

The fact that you tell me that PETA said NOT to shear sheep, tells me how stupid they and other animal activist groups truly are. You see, wild sheep were actually a mix of wool and hair, but the wool was shed off in the warmer months. Humans took these sheep and bred them for their wool, so they selected the ones with the most wool that DIDN'T shed off, so that they could harvest it themselves. It is entirely possible that PETA objected to how they were sheared because the electric clippers used are sort of like the ones used to trim dog coats, but have wider teeth so it will go through the wool. The small ones for dogs, the combs are too close together. And sometimes a sheep gets a little cut on them if they wiggle at the wrong moment. But at our farm, we immediately disinfect any little cuts with a spray. And as it turns out, sheep are exuding lanolin all the time from their skin (this keeps the wool soft and pliable), so because of this, they actually heal faster than any other animal. And for the record, it doesn't matter what time of year you shear them, so long as they have shelter for at least 2 weeks afterwards to harden and grow a bit of protection (like a man's beard), to prevent them getting chilled in the cold weather and to prevent them from getting sunburned in the summer. It is law that all animals must have a shelter from the elements all year long anyway. And technically, wool keeps you cool in summer and warm in winter, so again not relevant as to the time of year they are sheared.

sometimes,I just don't get why PETA advised NOT to shear sheep off their wool.it's actually necessary to have them sheared since it will weigh the animal down.maybe sheep shouldn't be sheared during winter,but in summer? they have to so they will be cooled down.

Good point with the wool. But, sheep are not easily farmed everywhere.

Which brings me to my first point.. I believe using synthetic materials will lead to more animal deaths in the long run. When we make synthetic clothing, we are creating a tonne of pollution, which will result in the destruction of many animals, indirectly. I feel it would be better to kill 10 foxes directly, take their fur, and fashion a blanket out of it, rather than kill 100 foxes indirectly through pollution and destruction of ecosystems.

A set of clothes made out of animal material will last a very, very long time, when compared to synthetic clothes. The thing is, the smart thing is to use nature, not to go messing around with chemicals and whatnot. If we work with nature, everything in nature will be fine. Recycling actually contributes to the pollution, with their own wastes. And, synthetic fiber puts off a lot of pollution, mainly from production. We could make due with the animals that are on the earth to clothe us, if people get over the idea that they need a whole closet full of outfits. One set of clothes is all a person needs, two at the most.