The United States a Christian Nation?
By dark_joev
@dark_joev (3034)
United States
October 4, 2010 10:52pm CST
Okay this has been brought up 100 times inside of millions of the discussions that we have all or most of us have been in a discussion on this very topic so This post is going to be really really long as I am going to post the one document of our United States Constitution which forms our national government and would form our nation as being any form of religious nation. Including the Bill of Rights.
And may the disscussion begun every one I think knows my position on this subject as I must be missing the line that states we are all christian and have to follow the Bible as the law of the land. But I will try to be as neutral and let all of you Nationalist and patriots. Oh and Can't forget the secularist who seem to be what the founding fathers where going for when they created the words down below as it places no name for a god or anything in the document that would form the United States. So I believe you have the rights to follow the teachings of your chosen religion/spirituality being that it hurts no one you can if you want try and violate the freedom of religion even by shoving your beliefs down the throat of others and make them eat from that sour cake if you want but it is a patriots job to ensure that the words of the constitution when voting takes the first priority in my oppion a patriot I think when voting doesn't think of his god but of the law of the land which is the words below this: And votes for the person he believe to be able and willing to follow them now can't say either the Republicans or Democrats have done this especially in the new forms they are taking will the Tea Party Republicans be any different than the Republicans? maybe another discussion this one lets try to keep on the subject of christian nation okay thanks.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Article I - The Legislative Branch Note
Section 1 - The Legislature
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section 2 - The House
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
(Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.) (The previous sentence in parentheses was modified by the 14th Amendment, section 2.) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five and Georgia three.
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
Section 3 - The Senate
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, (chosen by the Legislature thereof,) (The preceding words in parentheses superseded by 17th Amendment, section 1.) for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; (and if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies.) (The preceding words in parentheses were superseded by the 17th Amendment, section 2.)
No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Section 4 - Elections, Meetings
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Place of Chusing Senators.
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall (be on the first Monday in December,) (The preceding words in parentheses were superseded by the 20th Amendment, section 2.) unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.
Section 5 - Membership, Rules, Journals, Adjournment
Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.
Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.
Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
Section 6 - Compensation
(The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States.) (The preceding words in parentheses were modified by the 27th Amendment.) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.
Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto
All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be deter
2 people like this
7 responses
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
5 Oct 10
Were some of the founders Christian yes, I would be fool hard to try to even say that they were not but it would also be just as fool hard to say that all of the founders were Christians. Many very important founders were in fact Deist born out of the enlightenment era. Regardless if the founders want America to be a Christian nation the USA would have had a Church of America just like every other Christian nation that existed at that time. Great Britain is a fine example of what a true Christian nation looks like.
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
5 Oct 10
Of course this is not a Christian nation. Barack Obama said that the US is the largest Muslim nation on Earth.
But even though the number of people who identify with a Christian religion has dropped over the last few decades, it still stands at 77-79% depending on which polls you sample. That does make Christians a majority. One in three Americans identifies as evangelical Christian according to a CNN poll.
Now if we are talking about population size, as Obama probably meant when he said we were the largest Muslim nation, then we are a Christian nation by identification. However, Obama was way off since the most generous accounting of Muslims in America is only 7 million and Iran alone boasts a population of over 71 million and less than 2% of those are non-Muslim.
The point that the Constitution does not specifically denote a religion to be followed is well-taken. Freedom of religion is absolutely key to the founders' intent. However, one cannot dismiss the basic tenets that were used to construct our governmental system and to deny their Judeo-Christian roots is not necessary to claim this nation as being a democracy rather than a theocracy. The founders built their concepts of freedom and individual worth, as well as the laws that govern the land upon a Judeo-Christian foundation. No god in particular is mentioned because the founders wanted religious freedom built into the system.
I have already read the Constitution, even studied it thoroughly back in the days when schools actually taught such things. But thanks for posting it. In it, I am guaranteed freedom of speech. Since 77% of the population is Christian, I might opine that this is a largely Christian nation and I could say that, even if the Constitution doesn't begin "We, the Christian People".
I wouldn't say this is a Muslim nation, like Obama did, because then I would just look stupid.
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
6 Oct 10
Judeo-Christan laws weren't part of the constitution but the laws like don't kill or steal are not unique to Judeo-Christan thought. Many other beliefs especially ones on how to run a society have a some very similar laws are rules. So as the people of the United States most likely did get their laws from what the Bible said as many parts of the Bible do have things on how the government should be ran and in a lot of ways was like the constitution for the Jewish people.
I think the founders know they couldn't kick religion out all the way as people will base their decisions one their beliefs which could include their religious/spiritual beliefs. I personally believe in seperating my personal beliefs from my political ones because I look at the constitution for that as it is for me the guiding star for how the country should run.
As for having religious text on the side of publicly own buildings I don't have a problem with it as long as it isn't their to maybe market the religion like if it had a quote from proverbs or something or even having the ten commandments as long as the people believe that are in the area believe that it is okay as that would be a states right to decide on if that is included as a freedom which I think it is. I don't mind it. I don't care for it but I wouldn't mind personally I think in a courthouse may not be the best place for it as it is supposed to be equal but then again the courthouse may of been built a while ago as most are. I think our founding fathers should be quoted more often especially Jefferson but thats because I like a lot of his quotes.
I think Obama said that just to try to say that we aren't fighting muslim identified nations because of their religion.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
16 Oct 10
No, we're not a Christian nation, or a Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, atheist or any other particular faith or lack thereof. What drives me crazy is how some people, including at least one here, will constantly complain about the "secular" liberals, etc. We ARE a secular nation because we DO have a separation of church and state - YES WE DO, no matter who tries to say it doesn't exist. I absolutely believe everyone has the right to worship or pray, or not, however they see fit, as long as they're not doing anything that harms others such as animal or human sacrifices.
However, I realize there are people from "both sides" to blame for some of the problem we have in this area. I mean, do they really have to make a big deal out of a manger scene at Christmas time or "forbid" employees of some places from saying "Merry Christmas"? If someone WANTS to include "Under God" while reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, let him but if someone wants to skip those words, that's fine too. Why make a major issue of it, or an issue at all?
Another thing that makes me mad is when people say without religion there could be no morality and that the "Ten Commandments" is what our laws are based on, etc. Baloney! For one thing, there are some pretty awful sins left out of the Commandments that are worse than some that are included, in my opinion. My point here is I know plenty of people who aren't religious, didn't go to church as children and whose parents didn't go to church but they still know right from wrong. They still LIVE the Golden Rule whether they can recite Bible passages or not.
Annie
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
5 Oct 10
I didn't happen to see anything about a Christian God, Greek God, Pagan God or any other type of god. And, I think there's a point that you may have forgotten to point out in your discussion which is, the pilgrims came to this country to escape religious persecution. And, if history lied to us and they really came as missionaries they did a crappy job at that.
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
5 Oct 10
No you see that part of history was a lie created by the secular socialist Marxist progressive Democrat. The Founding Fathers where Christan and hence forth they created a Christan nation in which God would not be found in the Founding Document.
Hmmm so maybe they didn't think religion had apart in Government since that was how britian was set up where government and religion where one and the same hmmmm. So then they where Secular which means they believed that religion and government should be separated. Intelligent move for the founding fathers. I would say 1 point to logic let us see what the far fringe Fascist Right wing says*.
* I am going to start using far fringe Fascist Right Wing to describe the Christan right which well to put it nicely delusional on almost every level I think they need medication or a good history lesson but before that we would have to un-brainwash them.
1 person likes this
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
5 Oct 10
I like that "Fascist Right Wing" there's extremists in everything but, the far right wing fails to remember since for the most part they are the extremists. I'll even admit I'm an extremist because I think that everyone should have the same basic rights.
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@marcmm (1804)
• Malaysia
14 Oct 10
I would say that US is not a Christians nation and I dare to say there is no Christians nation in this planet. don't get me wrong, I'm a Christian and that is why I dare to say that.
There are a Christians majority nation but there is no Christians nation. Why? I will give a bullet point and that it is not within the constitution.
1. Christian forbid divorce but yet there are divorce allowed in all country. Any divorcee that are re-married they are considered as an adulterer and Christian not allow adultery. It was in the ten commandment. But the law of the nation allow anybody to re-married as long as they have been divorce. It is totally opposite the law of Christians.
2. Christians do not allow homosexual. But USA look it as it is their right to be homosexual. GOD never give us a right to choose what we want to be or what we want to do. We can only leave by what he said. Remember what happen to Sodom and Gemorah. They are destroyed and so is babylon. If only it was in ancient time, I guess God will destroy any nation that allow homosexual. I know I might get some bad comment for this word, but it was in the Bible and as a Christians I obey and live by the word of Bible. It is not me saying this but the Bible said this.
3. Muslim country never care what people said about their syariah law when they practice them and still practice them as long even there is protest made by the NGO. But the Christians nation can easily apporved the law that was not allow by the Bible if there just a slight pressure from the community and NGO. Why Christians are so weak implementing their law?
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
5 Oct 10
yeah oh and just because mylot wont let me post the whole constitution here is the link http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
5 Oct 10
Thank you for posting the Constitution. I hope the people will follow the link and read the total document, they may be surprised with certain parts of it.
From what I have read on this question the founding fathers did not want a state religion, or the church to be consulted as to laws and the workings of government. They wanted the US to be a place where a person could worship without fear and in a manner of their choosing. I don't think they had in mind that the government would be devoid of religion. I think such things as religious symbols on public property, with the approval of the community, are fine. The government building churches or showing special treatment to one religious faith over another is not what they had in mind.
Our laws are based on Judeo Christian principals along with other legal systems. I would say we have a majority of Christian in this country and our social and legal system are founded in Christian values for the most part.
