Reparations
By laglen
@laglen (19759)
United States
November 20, 2010 11:32am CST
From 1887. The Senate just approved a $4.6 billion pay off for black farmers and Native Americans regarding racial discrimination and land royalties.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-19/senate-approves-4-6-billion-for-claims-by-black-farmers-american-indians.html
I have to say it is amazing that these people are alive 123 years later to follow up on this suit.
I know this sounds terrible, but is this going to open the door for more or will this end the demands for reparations?
My family never owned a slave, and we PURCHASED land, never stole it. So please explain why I am paying for this?
3 responses
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
20 Nov 10
Presumably, someone in the US attorney's office reviewed the lawsuit, concluded that the government was guilty as charged and would lose in court, and that it would therefore be in the government (and taxpayer's) best interests to settle out of court in order to avoid paying a higher amount plus court costs to boot.
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
20 Nov 10
It is a well-established point of American law that if you purchase stolen goods from the person who stole them, they remain stolen goods. It doesn't matter how many times the goods change hands, they remain stolen goods. But in this case, whether you land purhcase made you the owner of your own land or the possessor of someone else's stolen goods is neither here nor there.
It's also well-established that the debts and assets of a legal entity such as a corporation or a nation don't vanish simply because the stockholders change hands. Rather, an incoming stockholder assumes the share of the entity's liabilities and assets of the outgoing stockholder. In the case of the US, these lawsuits are two such liabilities, and as a citizen you are partially responsible for paying the costs of your government.
Additionally, even if we accept arguendo that your land purchase made you the owner of your own land rather than the possessor of someone else's stolen property, the discrimination that occasions this lawsuit paved the way for your being able to purchase the land by shifting wealth away from blacks who would otherwise have been in a position to make competitive offers for that land. So aside from direct liability for your government's debts, you are paying for a benefit you have received.
Nor does your family not owning a slave change the fact that your family, then and now, benefited directly and indirectly from being part of an economy based largely on slave labor.
1 person likes this
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
20 Nov 10
From whom do you want reparations, and specifically for what? Let me help you answer that: The Nazis committed a number of crimes against the Jews, including theft of property, assault and murder. To this day, when that property turns up, it is returned to its rightful owners -- the person from whom it was stolen or their heirs. Companies that profited from the Holocaust by funding it, building the it's machinery etc. have paid reparations to Jews -- often to Israel as a sort of proxy for Jews. The Holocaust happened to the Rom, to Gays, to the disabled, and to lots of other folk as well, and there is no reason these reparations should be limited to the Jews. They didn't just happen, though, they were the result of Jews speaking up, including by bringing lawsuits just like these Black and First Nation farmers in the US did. So perhaps you get your reparations when you actually ask for them and sue for them.
Are you seriously suggesting that people who have been embezzled shouldn't have recourse to sue for their money, which is what this lawsuit is about? You do realize the article said the embezzlement started in the 1800s, not that it ended then, yes?
1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
20 Nov 10
These are two separate lawsuits, only one of which makes a claim going back to 1887. That would be the claim by American Indian plaintiffs that the Interior Department mismanaged trust funds that collected royalties for grazing rights and the extraction of minerals, oil and natural gas from tribal lands. I would assume that these agreements date back to 1887 and are still in effect today.
The black farmers' lawsuit alleges discrimination by the Agriculture Department’s lending programs. Under a negotiated settlement announced in February, qualified farmers can collect as much as $50,000, plus debt relief. Others may collect monetary damages up to $250,000. This one sounds fairly current to me.
Both of these lawsuits have nothing whatsoever to do with slaves and I doubt they'll have any impact on the issue of reparations...but I'm sure there will be those who will try to create a connection.
1 person likes this