Be careful which books you check out at the library
By laglen
@laglen (19759)
United States
February 15, 2011 8:50am CST
yep. The House passed the extension to the Patriot Act. They will now see what books you check out at the library.
My question here is, didnt Speaker Boehner say that every bill will have to show where in the Constitution it falls.
Where is exactly is their authority here? The fourth amendment? Are they already ignoring their own rules? It is February for crying out loud. Not even a month in and they are going against what they said. Once again, I tried to give the benefit of the doubt...
4 people like this
10 responses
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
15 Feb 11
Hiya laglen,
I am reading that right there every Book you take out of The Libraries will be checked by them who is them exactly?
I am a bit puzzled does that mean every Book in the land out of any Library is going to be checked I can imagine why and what for but I don´t know if I have grasped the meaning of that. I know what you mean by that they are already going against the grain with what they have stated before. That happens here already and we are used to that. We all have a sort of game going here it´s sort of like "Spot The Deliberate Mistake" (grin) we listen to them one Day and see if they stick to what they say the next Day.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
15 Feb 11
I am sorry, I should have been more specific. This is happening in the US and it would be our government looking at what books we check out. This is an invasion of privacy. Before the Patriot Act, they would have needed a search warrant obtained with just cause.
2 people like this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
15 Feb 11
Hiya laglen,
That really is an invasion of Privacy does this apply to everyone or just who they think might be under suspicion?
So what if you like to read a lot of Romantic Novels what do they class you as then it seems very silly to me.
Up to a point I can understand them following "suspicious" People up but then again I really can´t as everyone is supposed to have freedom of choice surely?
2 people like this
@Catana (735)
• United States
15 Feb 11
The extension means that they will *still* be able to see what books you check out. That was already in effect. The vote just keeps it in play. What it means is that libraries are supposed to keep a record of every book that's checked out and that government agents can ask for anyone's reading record. In practice, that's hardly ever happened, since it's intended to (supposedly) keep terrorism under control. If you read a lot of books about making bombs, killing people, or overturning the government, that might mean you're a potential terrorist. Of course, it's more likely that you're doing research for a school paper or something like that, or those are just interesting subjects for you.
Legally, libraries can't refuse to keep those records, but some head librarians have refused. And some librarians have fought openly against the law, even though it's stated in such a way that, legally, they can't even talk about it, and could be prosecuted for it.
2 people like this
@classicalgeek (185)
• United States
16 Feb 11
Some people have gotten their records flagged for reading a lot of history books.
Libraries cannot tell you if your records have been requested, however, my local branch has a hand-lettered sign in the window that says "The Federal Government has not requested any borrower records at this library. Watch this space." The day that sign gets taken down . . .
So I have restricted my borrowing history to light reading, like mystery novels. When I want to read a history book, I go to the library and read it there. The reading rooms are quite nice.
1 person likes this
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
15 Feb 11
They have been doing this for years - long before Patriot Act II. In Houston and surrounding cities in Texas, you cannot even use the computer with a library card! They have computer cards for visitors and anyone who chooses not to use his/her assigned library card. I always request the temporary computer card to get online in the library -
It is amazing how a government can be so insecure that it believes it ought to keep constant track of people! We are only free in words only in this great nation.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
16 Feb 11
Yeah, you should see how pissed husbands, wives, and parents get when we won't tell them what materials their spouses and kids have checked out. I've been yelled at so many times I'm pretty numb to it. I just tell them that we protect everyone's privacy equally and they can take it to the director, but they'll hear the same thing no matter how much they complain.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
16 Feb 11
That's a policy of the local library system to manage the time people spend on computers. It has nothing to do with monitoring or tracking your personal activities. Even if it were, that's the library's business so they can do what they want so long as they are open about their policies. The federal government however is violating the 4th amendment when they go to these libraries on fishing expeditions.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
16 Feb 11
I can only tell you that, as a librarian who has worked in 4 different library systems, NOT ONE OF THEM has used a system that tracks what books people check out after they're returned. If you check out a book at any of the libraries I've worked at, it is only on your record till you bring it back. There is no way to look up your history. The only exception is that people can typically track the books they've read on the website if they CHOOSE to opt in. By default, nobody's history is kept.
I started working in libraries in 2003 and the people who designed the Millennium software that many libraries use specifically told us that they made it that way to thwart the Patriot Act when they were pitching their software to us.
1 person likes this
@laglen (19759)
• United States
16 Feb 11
Taskr, I was thinking of you when I posted this and was hoping you would chime in. Everywhere I have looked, it seems librarians vehemently disagree with the Patriot Act and have been fighting against it. I trust my librarians, which says alot because I dont trust a whole lot.
@classicalgeek (185)
• United States
16 Feb 11
I have to say that I have only the highest respect for librarians the world over. And they are often the nicest people, as well as being principled and real artists when it comes to classifying and organizing information. I volunteered at my local library and I did tedious tasks so the librarians could concentrate on the work only they could do, and I volunteer about 20 hours each year.
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
16 Feb 11
I knew they would put it up for another vote, but I liked the fact that it failed the first time.
I agree that this bill doesn't follow the rule about citing the part of the Constitution that grants congress these powers.
They will tell you they are not breaking their rules, they are working for our protection. Meanwhile, more and more people start to feel like they need protection from the government as it encroaches more and more into their private lives.
I hate filling in passwords and such every time I log into sites, but I am afraid that I am going to have to get used to it, because I am going to start using private browsing mode full time. There's a kind of paranoia afoot, and I see no reason not to join in and get my share.
This is why the Republicans are their own worst enemy. They need to have a stronger spine, really stand for the Constitution no matter what. It's very disappointing...
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
15 Feb 11
Is that not the same when they tell you what sorts of things you have to discuss? I guess if you say that you are a writer and you want to do research on bomb makers or terrorist weapons that will be allowed, but why should anyone justify the reason they are checking out certain books at the library? Will they then go to the internet if you want to do research on the subject?
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
15 Feb 11
I had to shake my head in sadness when I hear they pushed the partriot act again after it failed. Neither side has a clue about what the citizens of this country want. Or how unconstitutional something is.I mean really...whose business is it what I read. Oh and by the way it is not just the library...they can find out what books you are buying at the book stores too if you use a credit card or their "membership" cards. Got an e-reader? They can trace what you download to it.
More lip service. No follow through.
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
15 Feb 11
Don't give them any ideas. They already think we don't have a right to privacy as is. I can see it now..the selling point would be
"adopt a government employee...improve the economy".
I wonder if they would also do the dishes and fold my laundry? I mean as long as he is just standing around watching me he might as well make himself useful.
1 person likes this
@divalounger (6117)
• United States
15 Feb 11
The Patriot Act is an erosion of civil liberties in the U.S. It is unfortunate that that is has been extended. The library issue has been present in the Act since its inception. I don't know that it has been enforced much, but I agree that it constitutes an unwarranted invasion of privacy, much like phone taps and the like.
@hofferp (4734)
• United States
15 Feb 11
Fortunately, I don't check out books at the library . But they can find out everywhere I've been on the internet And no, I don't like it and you're right about telling us one thing and doing another. Let's see if it continues. If it does, we'll vote yet another way, until they finally get the messages...
1 person likes this