Obama will help Japan but not help to oust Ghaddaffi
By suspenseful
@suspenseful (40192)
Canada
March 14, 2011 8:56am CST
Sorry if I spelled the name wrong, but it upsets me that the rebels in Libya are losing and there is no no fly zone over Libya. Is it because Ghaddaffi is a strong man and that is why Obama just waivers on the issue? Or is it because Bush would have sent in the troops? Can he not do both, help the Japanese as well as getting rid of an evil dictator who sent terrorists to kill people?
Besides the rebellion started first and had the no fly zone had been in place, perhaps they would have won.
3 people like this
12 responses
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
14 Mar 11
After the two wars in Iraq in which so many American/British lives were lost and are still being lost perhaps it is better to let the Arabs deal with this problem and not the West. Unless of course they appeal for help. You just can't march in and expect a country to be democratic when they do not know what democracy is and have never practised democracy.
Of course Mr. Obama would send relief to Japan. It is the worst disaster ever and now they may have yet another earthquake and Tsunami. The whole world is helping as it is a humanitarian cause.
3 people like this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
14 Mar 11
Send advisers into Libya. You do not need troops. Have some of the Libyans go to American schools using visas and have them learn how democracy works. That is what happened when Britain was an empire. People from non democratic countries went to their universities and learned how things work. AS for Japan, there are other countries that will be neglected and will that money get where it is needed? What I do not know is if this disaster is being used to take money from the States to make Americans more poor. I remember when Obama first became president he was all for taking from the rich and giving to the poor, so I really do not trust him. With the other presidents, they wanted America to remain what it was, and so when there was a disaster, I did not think "well Bush (or Clinton) for that matter thinks that Americans are too rich and this is perfect opportunity to transfer money from America to Japan or China or Haiti or whatever country for that matter.
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
17 Mar 11
Japan is a close ally with us and should something nasty happen with one of those reactors Americans would be at great risk for extreme exposure to Radiation that would cause them to die in a worse case.
As for Lybia we have no business invading the country as if they are having civil Unrest that is for the people to battle out where in this countries founding for us to police the world sending our troops to any country we see fit without a Declaration of War.
Wars are extremely expensive and despite the lack of declaration by the weaklings in Congress we are in two very expensive drawn out wars that have no end in sight because we didn't go in there with a mission. These two wars have cost use Billions of dollars and a third war wouldn't help us in anyway you want to balance the Budget but want the United States to be the Police of the World well sorry to say you can't do both so either Police the world and have a massive budget deficit or in order to compensate for the expenses of these wars that we will be going into on a very often basis raise taxes across the board until everyones income is taxed at 90% or so then we can pay for everything....maybe. I mean those two wars cost us at least 50 Billion at least on the Budget most likely more so Lybia could cost a whole lot more as they have a Military so may be 100 billion added to the Budget at the least ummm doesn't sound smart to me seems Obama picked the right choice help Japan as it endangers Americans that are deployed to bases in Japan.
3 people like this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
17 Mar 11
It is just that I do not think America should stand idly by. All that is needed are advisers to help; the rebels make a stand. You do not have to send in hundreds of troops. But doing nothing and Obama wanting to be a nice guy and not offend anyone. There could also be boycotts, etc. What is going to happen is the Qaddaffi is going to massacre all the rebels and possibly their families or wipe out cities. And of course that is all right because AFricans and leaders in non-white countries are held to a different standard.
If Obama is vaciliating because he does not want to offend Quaddafi, well bad for him.
1 person likes this
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
18 Mar 11
Boycotts hmm that could work of course that would also mean we would have to stop using Oil derived products which isn't going to happen....ever at least not until Oil is almost all gone. Sending Advisors could be seen as an act of War one in which we would be the aggressors in. That could cause us to be forced into a Military Response which is something we can't afford to risk this is where the Idea of nation building gets you to a point where people feel our country is obligated to do something when it isn't and has never been obligated to do something. Our country is Obligated to defend its own borders and defend itself from attack but going into other countries to set up a government we want hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now. Iraq and Afganhistan will return to their prior places but now they may become more extreme than they where prior to our involvement if you need proof of this being the result of nation building look at Iran.
@lilaclady (28207)
• Australia
15 Mar 11
Ithink it is a very hard issue, the poor US has gone into countries to try and help them then they get damned on for invading a country...I wish someone could do something about that man but I can understand why the US has to think about this sort of thing...
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
15 Mar 11
It is dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Personally I think they are putting the blame on the US for not having the gumption for doing it themselves or thinking they could when they were unable to get rid of him on their own. It wold have been easier for those to say that they could not have done with America's help. Oh yes and the other times, well when a man chosen by the States to run a country became a dictator. Perhaps the anger of the people should be been directed at him and realized that there is no official soothwayer or psychic in the American government.
1 person likes this
@K46620 (1986)
• United States
15 Mar 11
A no fly zone is an act of war, we cannot afford another war and have no right to start one. Lybians will have to settle the matter, if anyone intervenes it should be people that are closer to the area and are in better financial condition.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
16 Mar 11
Well there are those Arabian nations, but I was also thinking of the 2nd World War and getting rid of Hitler. I am Canadian and there were many Canadians including my father who went over there to fight and he also married my mother in England. I mean America and Canada is a long way from Europe. I am sure there are some Americans who want to get rid of a tyrant and yet the only ones who are allowed to are the Libyans themselves and those nations close to them.
Ironic and unfair is it not?
1 person likes this
@K46620 (1986)
• United States
16 Mar 11
Well, one difference between Hitler and this Lybian tyrant, is that he's just trying to recapture control of "his" country, rather than conquer other nations to gain more power.
Another thing, America was in much better financial shape back in WWII, and could better afford the war.
I'm not sure how unfair it is. Lots of factors to consider, and I'm no expert at this...
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
15 Mar 11
That's a difficult one for me to call. I personally think Obama won't cross Gadaffi cause he's in thick with Gaddafi & Farrakhan. I read a piece on the personal ties between the three of them going back to Rev. Wright's church and it's involvement with Farrakhan and money sent to help out Gadaffi's family somehow. Don't remember the details but will look them up.
I do agree we're spread pretty thin. The 'mom' in me wants to go help those who are fighting for their freedom. I say 'mom' in me because I can't stand a bully pushing weaker folks around. But after reading other responses here, I'm wondering if they really want OUR brand of freedom or if they'd just let the Muslim Brotherhood call the shots after we won the war for them, which definately wouldn't be good for the USA or rest of the world for that matter.
Very difficult call.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
15 Mar 11
Well I remember Cuba. America could have helped oust Batista and then perhaps Cuba would have become a democracy or be on the way to that. That is the trouble when you let just rebels oust a government, they are more like desperate men and radicals and take their clue from their great leader so I am afraid if the rebels do not get help from nations that know a bit about democracy that Libya will be like Iran, a radical Muslim country. Think of what happened to Russia, they were on their own, and they went from one tyranny under the Tsar to another under Communism.
Even advisers would help.
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
16 Mar 11
So why did we help get rid of Hitler and change Japan into a democratic monarchy? So if Europe is taken over by a dictator, it is not right, but for Africa and Asia, it is hands off?
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
15 Mar 11
I've had the same thought suspenseful. But you cannot force a nation to be democratic. Like Mrcoolantspray says, they have to want it more than anything else. I fear that these revolutions in the mid east will be hijacked by the radical element, perhaps the radical element is what eggs them on, just to gain absolute power. But what you are suggesting is that America start WWIII. Cause if we did go there, we would not be appreciated. I feel that this all just has to play out the way its going to play out and if America had strong leadership (which it doesn't) we whould dig in here at home and protect ourselves from those radicals who have promised to destroy us.
2 people like this
@kukueye (1759)
• Malaysia
15 Mar 11
it is different war there in libra and in different time. as you know usa and allies has been stretch too long in two war in iraq and afganistan while back home suffering economic thingie and popularity decline, basically no body want to involve in unppopular war , meanwhile the average libya dude does not like western power and consider usa is devil and such. gaddafi got billions dollar in war chest. so it will be bloddy civil war there.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
15 Mar 11
I think that is what will happen. What I am afraid that will happen is that when the rebels are defeated and Ghaddafi will be executing the rebels and possibly their families, and there will be an aftermath of blood, that those rebels who remain will blame America and the other nations for not helping them.
1 person likes this
@danishcanadian (28955)
• Canada
18 Mar 11
First off, you spelled his name correctly. I looked it up, and that's how it's spelled in the Latin alphabet. No idea how they spell it in Arabic, but then I'm sure myLot woudln't recognize Arabic characters. LOL
Anyway, it doesn't make sense to me either, how politicians pick their battles. Doesn't make sense to me at all!!
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
14 Mar 11
Suspenseful, one needs to understand the forces behind these civil unrest to appreciate events:
1). True, colonel Gaddafi has been in power for over 30 years, is over 70 and I believe that it is time for a change in Libya.
2). I am strongly against the colonel resorting to heightened violent acts against his country people - very inappropriate, colonel Gaddafi.
On the other hand however, colonel Gaddafi is one of very few African leaders that have over the years stood up against foreign powers attempting to impose upon his nation (and for that, I will forever have a soft spot for colonel Gaddafi). Gaddafi, folks, is an observant and very perceptive man and, unlike most African leaders, he has never forgotten the scramble for Africa and its consequencies. The man knows that he has been a stopper and is simply afraid the younger generation would yield to lurking vultures and turn his home-sweet-home into some Western colony.
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
14 Mar 11
Do you know that Gaddafi orchestrated that Pan Am bomb attack over Scotland and there were some Americans on board. So does help terrorists. That to me makes a difference. If he had not encouraged terrorism, then I would feel different. It is not that bad to make countries more Western by the way. I think non democratic countries need help in become more Westernized and democratic = not the MacDonald and junk food stuff, but giving people voting rights, having a say in their government, etc. and they need the West to help them, advisers, etc.
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
16 Mar 11
That did happen in Germany. Oh and I can see that happening in America. I see Obama becoming more like a dictator then the previous presidents and being allowed to because of that race guilt some idiots down there have. But the fact is that was it Gaddafi gave his people houses, jobs, etc. should his encouraging terrorist attacks against the States and the Pan Am bombing, and remember there could have been Canadians killed as well, because we are close to America.
Putting it on another way, did Hitler giving Germans house, jobs, etc. excuse his attacking Poland, trying to wipe out the Jews as well as the Slavs, send quislings into Norway to make Norway a facsist state, etc plus killing people in the Ukraine and Russia.
We did not excuse Hitler, yet we are supposed to excuse Ghaddaffi and other dictators. So you do not excuse a dictator if he is European but anyone else gets free reign.
@MrCoolantSpray (1005)
• United States
15 Mar 11
Suspenseful, freedom is all well and good-but people don't want capital F Freedom by itself. They have to want something else first, something they can't get now because their government won't let them. Then, they want freedom so they can go after the other thing. I haven't seen that happen in Africa, until now, possibly. America does a lot of freedom-gathering, but by and large people don't know what they're getting so they give it away to the next dictator who promises a house, a job, and a car to everyone who votes for him.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
19 Mar 11
First of all, don't worry about the spelling since it seems there are about a dozen different ways to spell his name! Next, I'm sorry I took so long to find this discussion but as it turns out, as we speak action is being taken and I think the world leaders went about it the right way, with an international coalition. The thing is ANY American President can't win for losing in these situations since there will always be those who think he or she does too much, too soon while others feel it's too little, too late. The bottom line is, we're involved in two middle east wars already and we could no way afford on any level to get into a third on our own without having the international community standing with us.
Annie
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
14 Mar 11
Too true they are. Let the other Arab nations help.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
14 Mar 11
That would help. But maybe those Arab nations will make Libya like Iran and remember when the STates did not help one nation that is Cuba in their revolution. It turned into a communist country. I also think you do not need to send out the troops. Just having a no fly zone over Libya and Ghaddaffi will think "maybe I should resign because no one is visiting my country.
@blue65packer (11826)
• United States
14 Mar 11
I think Obama is doing this because japan needs are help more now then ousting Ghaddaffi. He can wait and are troops are thin as it is! We have so many over in Afganistan and Irag,who is left to fight in Libya? I would love to see that nut case ousted and see gasoline prices stop going up! I think it is will be a wait and see thing!
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
14 Mar 11
All is needed is a no fly zone. That is something like boycotting. Ghaddaffi is a proud man and it would hurt if no airplanes land in his airports and it would give the rebels a more even footing. Oh the gasoline prices are going up because of speculators. And the trouble with sending money to Japan is what happens when there is the next disaster and the next? Pretty soon money will be like the lack of troops. I do not want to come to a time when people are mortgaging their future because ninety percent of their income goes to help others. It was much better when the churches did it. Everyone donated, and they did not give all the money to one nation and leave the others out in the loop, they distributed it equally to the people who needed it and those people did not all live in one country.
@hvedra (1619)
•
16 Mar 11
"Since the re-establishment of diplomatic relations with Libya in 2004, the United States has lifted economic sanctions against the country and has removed Libya from the U.S. list of states that sponsor terrorism. With these new developments, Libya is now more accessible to U.S. companies."
Note the use of the word more. Many US companies were active in Libya during the sanctions via European subsidiaries.
"In January 2005, Libya awarded its first contracts for drilling rights to U.S. companies in 18 years. Three American firms, Amerada Hess, ChevronTexaco, and Occidental won the lion’s share of oil blocks in the first round of the exploration and production sharing agreement auction."
source@ http://www.buyusa.gov/libya/en/doingbusinessinlibya.html
Do you think if someone overthrows Gadaffi they'll want to engage with the same businesses and continue with those contracts?
Do you imagine that the oil businesses who have contracts in Libya want a regime change unless they get to control the next government?
1 person likes this