I am an Atheist, does this make atheism, my religion?
By Christoph56
@Christoph56 (1504)
Canada
May 9, 2011 3:22am CST
My first point in the matter is that I do not believe in a God or gods. But, the exact points in this, almost make atheism a religion in itself. The first is that I can not completely say, without a doubt, that there is no God, because I have no proof of it, either way. Richard Dawkins put forward a point that, since you have no proof either way, you can not deny it, but the chances of it existing are the same as a tooth-fairy or a flying spaghetti monster, the chance of it not existing far outweigh it existing by about 99%, but you can not say it absolutely does not exist.
Another direction is that of science, it is better to be proven wrong, then right. If you are proven wrong, after putting the idea you were proven wrong about through scientific testing, and the result having a different outcome then you thought, then doors and questions are opened all over the place, and it's a fantastic point to continue on.
And you have to be able to admit, "I don't know". When it comes to things like, "How did the universe begin?" or "How did life start?", we simply have no way to look at those times and see how it happened, and we have many different hypothesis on how it happened, but there's no way we can be 99% sure, so, we have to just say, I don't know. I don't know how life or the universe began, but I do know how the universe formed into how it is today, and how the evolution of animals got to us, but I just can't say how it started. Maybe at some point in time, we'll have evidence of it, but for now, I just don't know.
These are just a few of the many concepts that the majority of atheists agree with. There are also things like our holidays, like Darwin Day, or the seasonal equinoxes. There are groups that we get together in to discuss all the pieces we know in atheism and science and culture. We have TV and radio shows, we have groups that help others. Overall, doesn't this kind of style make atheism, a religion in itself? One that has a nearly religious concept that there is no god?
3 people like this
18 responses
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
9 May 11
Being an atheist does not make atheism your religion but stating your belief emphatically does put you into a status similar to those that claim allegiance to a religion.
You are insisting on a label to define the state of your belief and you are categorically denying the existence of any god with nothing to support that statement but your own conviction. It is true that there is no evidence that supports the existence of a god but there is no evidence that provides definitive proof that some god somewhere does not exist.
2 people like this
@owlwings (43910)
• Cambridge, England
9 May 11
A good definition of "religion" is as follows (my emphasis and additions in brackets):
"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially [but not exclusively] when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually [i.e., but not always] involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
In other words, the definition of a 'religion' does not necessarily imply a belief in the existence of a 'god' or 'gods' or, indeed, any 'god'. Buddhism is an example of a recognised religion which (in one manifestation, at least) does not rely on a belief in god or gods.
What would define a religion, in my opinion, would be a moral code and a set of beliefs which are shared by a number of people and the existence of some kind of organisation which promotes, rationalises and regulates those tenets in some way. 'Rationalisation' may be in a very broad sense and may well not be logical or conclusive to those outside the religion!
The fact that there exist many programmes and discussion groups, forums and so on dealing with and promoting atheism does not necessarily, however, qualify atheism as a religion, since, even though they may represent some kind of consensus of opinion, the individuals are not necessarily united in their opinions and there may be no organisation as a whole which is accepted as dictating beliefs and moral codes. It is, a fine (and arguable) point, I think, and it would be possible, I believe, to form a non-deist (or anti-deist) 'religion' even though the usual definition of religion does include a positive belief in a 'superhuman agency or agencies'.
If your position is that you cannot say without a doubt that there is no God, then you should call yourself an Agnostic rather than an Atheist.
1 person likes this
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
10 May 11
No, I am not an agnostic. Atheism has roots in science, so as an atheist, I have to take the scientific approach to the concept of a god existing or not. That means that I rely on the evidence at hand, but do not say without a doubt, that something can or can not exist. If it was boiled down to just asking me if God exists or not, saying "Yes" would make me religious, saying "no" would make me atheist, and saying "I don't know" would make me agnostic. I'm 99% sure that God does not exist, and therefore, I'm an atheist.
@starsailover (7829)
• Mexico
10 May 11
Hi owlwings: I can't agree more with you on these facts. Budhism is a religion that don't believ in any God and the fact that our friend consider the possibility of the existence of God makes him an Agnostic and not an atheist. Actually I think it's better to be an Agnostic than an Atheist because the last ones feel wise enough to be completely sure there's no God when human knowledge is finite. There are a lot of things we just don't know. Thanks for your answer.
ALVARO
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
10 May 11
owlwings, I think morals are more important to religion than belief about creation. Morals tend to affect your decisions, possibly causing you to kill people or kill yourself or do other drastic things. What you believe about creation will rarely affect any important decisions for most people.
I think your definition of religion would exclude Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and probably all "religions" other than a few small brainwashing cults. In most groups that are regarded as religions, there's some variation of opinion, sometimes to the point of lethal combat.
@_sketch_ (5742)
• United States
9 May 11
Atheism is not a religion. A religion is an organized spiritual practice. Atheism is not really a spiritual belief, and definitely not an organized practice of anything. Though it all depends on the definition that is being used, I suppose. Some religions do not contain the belief or worship of any god, so some would consider them "atheist", but most would not.
You mentioned that many atheists like to get together and celebrate certain holidays, but so do football fans and bands of musical groups, etc. Just because someone with similar beliefs or interests gets together doesn't make it a religion. Religions typically have to do with a moral system. Of course atheists have morals just like everyone else, but they don't get together and say, "This is what we have to do to be good." or anything like that. Religion is more like a rule-system.
I would say that perhaps atheism is a life philosophy.
It has already been mentioned that since you say that there is no proof either way, then you are not truly atheist, but rather agnostic. This just means that you don't believe that there is sufficient proof either way, so you don't deny the possibility.
@_sketch_ (5742)
• United States
9 May 11
Yes, religion is a type of life philosophy. However, religion is not required in a life philosophy. I am a spiritual person and also a non-religious person. My spirituality is tied into my life philosophy and does not require me to identify with any religious group.
I still disagree with you on the atheist/agnostic thing. Of course there is no proof either way, but an agnostic chooses to not identify with or make any claims toward anything because of that lack of proof. Both the religious and the atheists choose to hold beliefs despite the proof. I think I sort of got what I was trying to get across there.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
Really though, isn't religion also a life philosophy? Thats why I started wondering this question... there are so many differences, but there are giant differences between the different religions, too...
But, the direction of being skeptical, and being willing to admit that there isn't proof either way is a direction of atheism. If I had to give a choice between there being, or not being a supernatural creator that watches over us, or any other kind of "God", then I would absolutely, without a doubt say No, there isn't. If there isn't proof of something, then there is no reason to believe it. Just like there is no proof of flying pink elephants. Of course, at the same time, if proof was revealed that there were flying pink elephants, if they had never been seen until now, but there was suddenly loads of reproducible evidence that they did exist, then I would believe in them. The same goes for God, and its a foundation of the more formal forms of atheism and skepticism to see things that way. We can't know for sure if something does or does not exist, but we will not believe in it until we are shown the absolute reproducible proof that it does exist.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
11 May 11
I would argue that atheism is a religion.
For one thing this is logical. If a biologist describes a new subspecies of a species that previously had no recognized subspecies, this automatically creates a second subspecies consisting of those members of the species which don't belong to the other subspecies. For a hypothetical example (Darwin would be proud, he was very fond of these), if I was to describe Hypothetical specificus subsp. neo, I would also be automatically creating Hypothetical specificus subsp. specificus.
Similarly, if you lack A, B and Rh blood type antigens, you still have a blood type: O -ve.
In the same way, I would suggest that by separating itself from religions by rejecting belief in the paranormal, atheism is automatically setting itself up as new religion.
I define religion as "The sun of your beliefs regarding the paranormal and morality." This includes most things people normally call religions: Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Occultism etc. but not other things people can be obsessed about but aren't normally considered religions like housework or sport. This includes atheism as a religion because it makes a claim about the paranormal in that there isn't any. It also, by extension, claims that there are no absolute moral standards because that would require some sort of god to dictate them to man; anything else is just man made rules and what gives one man or woman a right to impose his or her rules on another?
As atheists, as you point out, have a tendency to form into groups, hold events, even have "prophets" etc. and also have a tendency to show hostility towards followers of other religions, I would say this proves that atheism is itself a religion, sometimes even an organized one!
Lastly, in America there are rules about separation of church and state (I think this is bad terminology because it implies that such rules apply only to Christianity). This means that you get situations like allowing evolution to be taught in schools and not intelligent design. I think this tends to make atheism effectively the state religion. However, if atheism is itself defined as a religion, then this should somewhat redress the balance.
1 person likes this
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
Thats a nice way to put it, because atheism is really the belief in 0. Thanks for your post.
@Burningice (35)
• Philippines
9 May 11
Atheism for me is a state of mind-a belief. But it's definitely not a religion because religion involves belief in supernatural beings or a Supreme being and is characterized by rituals, icons and sacred writings. I don't belong to any religion but I believe there is a Creator, so what does that make of me? :)
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
But, Atheism can believe in certain pieces that can be considered supernatural. Like, for myself, I believe in string theory, showing what the universe is like above and below what we can now see with our technology, and its like a gigantic set of strings, vibrating along with the gigantic and nanoscopic world around us, alowing for our conditions. Of course, it's in the atheist code to not be sure or 100% convinced, so I'd put that direction at a 50% chance.
Atheists have rituals, some which celebrated times like Darwin Day, or keeping up on science news, or to be skeptical over whatever is put in front of you.
We have icons, people like Richard Dawkins or Charles Darwin or Christopher Hitchens or Issac Asimov or Michael Shermer or Sam Harris or Carl Sagan, just to name a few of the people that have done so much to push forward the directions that we believe in. These people all have their own sacred writings, ones that any atheist out there will tell you that you should read to get a better understanding of the whole direction... one of the biggest and best being "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. Absolutely a must read.
Not having any religion, but still believing there is a creator is generally defined as a "spiritual agnostic", or, you know there's some spiritual, magical force, but you don't quite know what it is, and you're not very concerned in trying to find it.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
10 May 11
I wouldn't say it is a religion but I am glad you have support , especially here in "G-d Fearing" America. You are a group. You live without G-d and that's cool. G-d isn't for Everyone . He/they don't exist for you and that is ok. But I thought a religion needed a Head Deity so Atheism can't be a religion. This is what I love about America , We have freedom of And From Religion. ps. What day is Darwin day? I want to wish you a Happy Or Belated Darwin Day.
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
11 May 11
Thanks.Alas I'm on the other side, A Jew who has no interest in science. But I do agree that there Has to be a separation of Church and State. And that includes public schools. And I would fight just as hard for you to be free from religionas I would for me to be free to have my religion. But I do promise to remember Darwin on Feb 12.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
10 May 11
Well, Atheism does not have a head deity, but we do have many "prophets", people like Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens who express the problems with religion, and the scientific aspects of how the world works.
Darwin Day is a yearly celebration regarding the birth of Charles Darwin, from February 12th of 1809. Its an event celebrating science through the new pieces we keep finding, and memories of the incredible people through history that added greatly to the science we have today. People get together holding all sorts of studies, or sometimes protesting against things like mixing religion and government or public education, and sometimes just fun gatherings of people with meals of things like "primordial soup" or "roasted finch" or "brontosaurus ribs" (not from those actual animals, just more of a statement of evolution through common foods).
If you're out in any of the bigger cities around the world, then there's a good chance there's a Darwin Day festival on Feb 12th. You should look into it and come out! It's lots of fun, and lots of learning.
1 person likes this
@flagella08 (5065)
• Philippines
9 May 11
we humans, living and non living things are the proofs of God's existence. may i share to you this excerpts so you maybe enlighten.i am not forcing you to believe because it's a personal choice and i respect that.
The Bible gives witness to two facts regarding the knowledge God. First, it teaches us that God is incomprehensible, and but then it also declares that God is knowable.
God’s incomprehensibility is declared in passages like Job 11:7 and Isaiah 40:18:
Job 11:7 Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?
Isaiah 40:18 To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare with Him?
The fact that God is knowable is evidenced by the very gift of the Bible as God’s revelation of Himself to man, but note also the following passages:
John 14:7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.
atheism is not a religion.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
You don't really give anything in your statement saying that atheism is not a religion... unless what you mean is that islam is not a religion, or paganism is not a religion, or budhism or hinduism aren't religions either... is that what you mean?
Also, saying that God is incomprehensible, but is knowable, is a contradiction in the direction of atheism and skepticism. If you can not comprehend something, and there is no way to comprehend it, then, at least at the point of technology and science that we're at, it is not knowable. Just like I was saying earlier, its a direction of atheism that you have to be able to admit that you don't know something. There are many things out there that we can look at with science, but we have to be able to admit that we don't know other parts.
And, if we're just bringing it down to books, I have many books by Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens and Brian Greene and Charles Darwin just to name a few, and these people did years upon years of study of various concepts, and through the power of their knowledge, they have shown that you do not need a God for things to exist and to work the way they do. In my opinion, this is far more trustworthy then a book that was written back thousands of years ago, and based on stories that we're told through a game of "telephone" that spanned generations.
With my firm beliefs in these pieces, wouldn't that show that atheism is a religion?
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
10 May 11
musash808, you say, "bible is written by man, which makes it false due to fallacy of man". Obviously you wrote that so it must be false, assuming you are a man.
Christoph56, you say that these books (or their authors) have shown that you do not need a God for things to exist and work the way they do. Surely the only way to prove this is to have two entirely separate realities which are incapable of communicating or interacting in any way, one containing a God and the other without. If things come to exist and work in the same way in both, then God isn't necessary. Have these authors done such an experiment?
@musashi808 (91)
• United States
9 May 11
I agree to the atheism is not a religion, but it can't be proven through a passage and that humans are alive. There is no definitive proof we are created or that there is a god so to say we are the proof is not a solid statement. I do not try to prove that but I do not believe in religion and bible (mostly since bible is written by man, which makes it false due to fallacy of man) but also religion, god and bible are all separate
@maidangela7349 (1191)
•
10 May 11
An atheist does not believe in any god or deity so there is no religion involved.
Science has given us some theories about the formation of the universe and the start are evolution of life. Those theories are based on current scientific knowledge but as new knowledge comes to light the theories will change. That is the nature of scientific investigation. There is no other way. All religions have stories about the start of the earth and life but they are just stories and there is no need to consider them when investigating these matters.
@maidangela7349 (1191)
•
11 May 11
That is not a big problem at all. As I said in my answer adapting theories as new information is part of the scientific process. Any scientific theory that can't adapt as new information comes to light is not worth considering which is why none of the religious explanations are worth considering. Spontaneous generation or biogenises is not part of the evolutionary process and the latest discoveries in DNA has shown that it is a chemical process and the research into that is continuing.
The bible may give some good guidance as to the way to live your life but when it comes to scientific explanations it is just rubbish
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
11 May 11
A big problem with evolution and the big bang theory is that they keep changing. When first developed evolution claimed that organisms evolved by a series of infinitesimally small changes and Mendel's genetics was rejected because it proposed units of inheritance. Then people became worried that good characteristics would just get diluted out in the generally population so Mendelian genetics was added to Darwinian evolution to prevent this.
I recently saw an issue of Scientific American with a cover story about quantum physics meant that the big bang theory would need to be changed.
Before evolution there was spontaneous generation which was even more un-Biblical!
Before the Big Bang theory there was the Continuous State theory which was even more un-Biblical!
1 person likes this
@tammy27 (1241)
• Philippines
9 May 11
there are many kinds of atheism such as humanistic Judaism and Cristian atheists. i was one, before, but as usual i dot discriminated and my family mainly my grandma and aunt tells me all the time that im just wasting my time in that atheism thing, that's why i made deep research and slap on their faces that atheism is not any ordinary game or simple shi* like how they think.
anyway, in the US atheism is considered as a religion. but im not sure with the other countries. i'll make deeper research bout it. hehe
@_sketch_ (5742)
• United States
11 May 11
@Christoph56 Just because people hold religious or spiritual beliefs does not mean that they "look at people differently just because of what group they belong to". Also, there is technically more than just theists or atheists, depending again on how the term "atheist" is defined. Personally, I do not consider myself to be part of either group, nor am I agnostic.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
Thats really too bad, the problems that you had with your family. I hope, though, that people like you and me, who will put forth the effort to tell people how atheism works, and how religion doesn't stand up, that in the end, the direction of being a theist or an atheist will just be gone, and we'll have an agnostic world who don't look at people differently because of what group they belong to.
You keep it up, and I hope for the best for you!
@ssebrinatw (175)
• United States
9 May 11
You know, I'm not sure. I don't believe in god or gods either. But many aetheists seem to want to gather like a religion and preach about not believing in anything. I don't do that. I just sit on my beliefs of not believing and leave it at that. I don't put people down for believing in god but I do stop them if they try to force their beliefs on me. If people ask, I tell them i'm not an aetheist, I just believe in doing good and doing what's right.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
technically speaking, if you do not believe in the existence of a God or gods, then you are an atheist. Just like if your skin is really light colored then technically you are caucasian. Your direction of taking it isn't too different then the way many religious people take their reliigon in first world countries, either. They believe there is a God, but they don't feel the need to go to Church, or celebrate christmas any more for Jesus then for Santa Claus and family and gifts. I think the way you're taking it is great, so keep it up!
@efnaser (30)
• Indonesia
9 May 11
Atheist is not a religion, because religion believe in God.
If you don't believe in god, because you never see Him, so like so many people say or question "have you ever seen air, have you ever seen pain?" or something else that you can't see it but you believe in.
If I slap you, then you shout "Hey it's painful" so I ask you "do you see the pain?"
then you answer I can't see it, but I can feel it. Then my answer will be, but I can't feel it, it means that the pain doesn't exist.
Not everyone can feel the pain you feel, and of course, not everyone can see or talk to the God. We just believe in what the prophets said. Like you believe in your wife when she says that she's sick.
God is just like that, you can't see Him but he exists.
And if you don't believe in prophets, I ask you again one question "do you believe you were born by your mother?"
Thanks, may Allah give you guidance.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
Buddhist religion believes in reincarnation, and something along the lines of heaven, but no specific creator, or intelligent being controling it all. Hinduism, as well as many other polytheist religions from around the world, don't believe in a God, but rather many different gods, each with their own individual tasks. Does what you're saying place them in the direction of not being a religion?
Feeling pain and Feeling God are 2 very different things. The vast majority of people (ones without any kind of neurological problems that get in the way of feeling it) can feel pain. It's something I can continuously test. Everytime I poke myself, or anyone else, we feel pain. There are massive studies on our nervous system, showing how we feel pain, how we react to pain, and what our bodies go through. We can even see it at work through electron microscopes and MRIs.
God, on the other hand, we can not see or test in any of these ways. There is nothing in this world, other then God or other mythological or superstitious concepts, that we can not do repeatable testing on, and constantly see the same result.
Yes, I do believe that I was born by my mother, because there is direct eye witness testimony towards it with people that I know extremely well and I can trust, as well as with medical professionals, that gave me forms showing when and where and how I was born from my mother. If I am still in doubt of it, then I can get blood testing, and with the technology of today can show, without a shadow of a doubt, that it was my Mother that gave birth to me.
Now, since I can get all of that constantly reproducible evidence that I came from my Mother, where is your reproducible evidence that there is any kind of God?
This is what makes me an Atheist.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
10 May 11
There is no "who" that "built" this universe. Exactly how the universe started, I'm not quite sure, but I believe far more in membranes colliding, or black holes countering their gravitational force, or the sequence of explosion and collapse, then I do in a God creating everything.
I was actually a practicing muslim for about 2-3 years time, back in my high school days, because I had such an interest in religion, and I wanted to further understand them more. I've seen what many different groups claim to be evidence of God, but that evidence just does not hold up.
@efnaser (30)
• Indonesia
10 May 11
The universe, the universe is an evidence that God exists. who has built this very vast universe? Plato, Socrates or your mother? No one will possible to do that, but God. If you really want to know if God does exist or not, just visit one of Muslim centers in your Area, ask them the evidence of God, and tell them that you are an atheist. I believe they will answer your question.
may Allah give you guidance.
@musashi808 (91)
• United States
9 May 11
I would first say look at my discussion on religion you can see a lot of what was said especially by me. That being said if you refer to that or even here me now atheism is and will not be a religion. Religions are based on seven rules to be deemed as such and also I do not believe in religion it is a pointless concept that leads to stupid things. Plus I would say (no offense) you are a reason atheism is con-notated to the christian god. I know you mention god or gods but still atheism by definition the denial of a god, per my example in other discussion even christians are atheists due to the fact they do not believe in other gods one example is Zeus. That means they are a Zeuthian atheist. You are correct though we cannot prove or disprove because metaphysics are out of our reach. Though there theories and everything, my main point is to your term of atheism.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
9 May 11
What are these 7 rules that a religion must have?
Your point on if you do not believe in gods such as Zeus, then that makes you an atheist as well is another concept that many atheists have. I got to know that through it being popularized by Dawkins as well, where he says, "We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further".
@musashi808 (91)
• United States
9 May 11
Though Dawkins is not the creator of the term atheist, so I do not completely agree with that, we are all atheists real fact. Everyone is because everyone has a god they do not believe in, atheists means everyone in some regard there is no one god further, its all the same and if the christian god is emphasized and put point to in this way if gives cristianity and religion more power and rise since their view is better. Plus I would like to stress again main argument is terminology of use of the word atheist.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
10 May 11
musashi808, you still haven't answered the question about what these 7 principals are. Can it be any 7 principals? I rather get the feeling that you're using a weird definition of religion that was concocted with the express intention of classifying Unitarianism (which is based on 7 principals, rather than the Jewish/Christan 10 commandments) as religion while excluding atheism.
@1hopefulman (45120)
• Canada
10 May 11
It has always been my view that atheism is a religion. From my reasoning and research, it would take an enormous amount of faith to be an atheist. If a universe cannot convince one that there is a God than this person has a lot more faith than I do.
@TallPaul69 (70)
• United States
9 May 11
This is a very good post. The question you are asking is almost impossible to answer. On one hand, atheism means you do not believe in any religion. On the other hand, the fact that you believe in no religion could mean that is your belief, and therefore a religion. I think atheism is not a religion.
@RabbitCanFly (120)
• China
16 May 11
The ONLY difference between an Atheist and a religious believer:
Atheist:
"How did the universe begin?"
"I don't know yet.But I haven't given up solving that mystery.I
'm studying for it.I hope someday,my child or grandchild will know it."
Religious believer:
"How did the universe begin?"
"God created it."
"...How do you know?"
"...A book told us so.And everybody else believe in it too."