Non Christians and the Christian Life

I don't entirely understand. if they feel that the values taught in Christianity are values that should be lived by, and feel that from a moral rather than a religious perspective, of course they should live by them. I am not an Asatruar, but I strive to live by the nine noble virtues of Asatru. when I first read them I was struck by how VALUABLE that code was. to try and live by those values makes me a better person. I may not be worshipping norse Gods, but their nine noble virtues are a very morally sound framework. I admire those values, and seek to cultivate them in myself. Courage Truth Honour Fidelity Discipline Hospitality Self Reliance Industriousness Perseverance there are some where I feel I lack a bit. but I strive for it. and I do think that if you believe something to be morally right, be that from a basic moral point of view or a religious one, and don't try as hard as you can to do it, then that isn't right. do what is right. even if it is not easy.

What about the person who puts value on Christianity but is himself not a Christian? Should he also live those values?

I don't buy the story mentioned in Acts 9 and the the twelve disciples were chosen by Jesus himself, with the command not to preach outside Israel. and the Law was not created to disappear but it was created to remain, Till heaven and earth pass. the covenant between God and Abraham is everlasting, but Paul canceled it in Galatians 5:2 saying: Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. while the Bible is obvious and clear that it is everlasting covenant, or do you think that the word everlasting is there to decorate the verse? Genesis 17:9-13 (9) And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. (10) This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. (11) And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. (12) [i]And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. [/i] (13) [i]He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. [/i] It should be noted that the Law in included in Islam, circumcision is a Must in Islam, both Muslims and Jews follow the Law, Jesus himself commanded adherence to the Law, and therefore a real Christian is supposed to follow the Law, and thus Paul is a deceiver.

Jesus instructions to the twelve was before his crucifixion and resurrection which is what was accomplished in the law that was mentioned in Matthew 5:18. Christ was the perfect sacrifice that ended the animal sacrifices that only rolled sins over until the next year. (18) "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Paul was specifically chosen by Jesus to tell the Gentiles about salvation through Jesus. Acts 9:15-17,19-22 (15) But the Lord said to Ananias, (about Saul soon to become Paul)"Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. (16) I will show him how much he must suffer for my name." (17) Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord-Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as your were coming here-has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (19) Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. (20) At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. (21) All those who heard him were astonished and asked, "Isn't he the man who raised havoc in Jerusalem among those who call on this name? And hasn't he come here to take them as prisoners to the chief priest?" (22) Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ. In Acts 22 Paul recounts his conversion. You can read that for yourself. Read Acts 15 to learn about circumcision after the church was established. You are trying to turn Christians into Jews by demanding they follow the Jewish law. All Paul is saying in Galatians is that you no longer have to cleanse yourself with the Jewish rituals, because Jesus paid the price for our sins. The bottom line is that those who accept Jesus Christ are not trying to become Jews. They have become Christians.

Did you neglect to read Acts 9? Did you ask what must be accomplished before the law would disappear? Perhaps you should go back and read all the New Testament instead of picking and choosing. I think you'll find you've left out quite a bit.

I'm not going to judge the Christians you've mentioned. I don't know them nor you to say who is right and who is wrong. My discussion wasn't suppose to be about hypocrisy but about valuing a certain perceived behavior. If the non believer thinks the standards of Christianity are of value, should he also be living those standards? I'm not sure how much the non believer knows about Christianity to call Christians hypocrites. I do know there are occasions when a non Christian will accuse a Christian of not being very Christian because he hasn't done what the non Christian believes to be Christian. Is it based on what is Christian or what is perceived to be Christian?

Good question. Is it Christian to turn the other cheek, to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and to love the sinner and hate the sin? Those were lessons I learned from over a decade of my religious upbringing. I turned away from said upbringing when I found out that the lessons I learned in Sunday school were not lessons adhered to by many in the church, or many who claimed to follow the same religion as my family. It led to a dislike of religion that took me years to come to terms with. That is what people are talking about when they say Christians should act more Christian. To say you are Christian yet react with vitriol at the very idea of someone believing or behaving differently than you is not a terribly Christian trait. Christan behavior is very difficult behavior to achieve. It's a docile and forgiving behavior that is almost against our nature, which is why it can seem so ideal. If one is going to claim to be an adherent to Christian teachings, it only makes sense that they make a modest attempt to actually adhere to them, yes? In the same way that you can't claim to be open-minded if you're against anything different than what you're used to, you can't claim to be Christian if you shamelessly go about with a hateful, vengeful, oppressive, and judgmental nature. Well, you can claim it, but there's a difference between being a Christian and being Christian.

Actually, I wasn't talking about paths to the Lord. I'm talking about a standard of living. Should a non believer, if he puts value on Christian standards, also live by those values?

Maybe not the rules, if it isn't your religion; but if you think the day to day behavior is worthwhile, perhaps you should. It sounds like a confession of being right and fair with God, man, and beast.

This is the Negative Confession to Ma'at: http://www.philae.nu/akhet/Confession.html I believe you would put value on these standards. Does that mean you should live by the rules of ancient Egyptian polytheistic worship?

of course i don't care if people act not accordingly to their religion as long as they recongnize that they have their personal interpretations of such religion. What i can't really stand are people who criticize other people beliefs and then don't act according to theirs.

"Everybody agrees that a person who states certain beliefs should act according to them." What about the person who values certain beliefs? Should that person life the life he values?

So Balthasar, if the non believer finds value in Christianity, shouldn't he be living that kind of life? I'm not talking about the religious aspect of it, just daily life.

Actually that makes no sense. The message of Christ was in fact that he was Savior. I said over and over and over again, that he is the messiah, and if you wanted to gain forgiveness for sin, your only hope, only chance of being saved, was through himself. I always find it odd that anyone can "value the message" but reject "Christ". Christ (which means Messiah or Redeemer), *IS* the message. "Christ" was the message of Christ.

(Correction) *HE* said over and over and over again that he is the Messiah, and if you want to gain forgiveness for sin, your only hope, only chance of being saved, is through himself. "No one comes to the father, but by me" - Jesus. Very clear.

Being a Christian is following the teachings of Jesus Christ and accepting Him as your LORD and Savior. We have bumper stickers here in the USA that say, "What would Jesus do?" A problem though, is that many of those who want to tell Christians how they should live, don't know what Jesus would do. They only go by what they believe to be right, and that's usually political correctness. I believe, before a non believer can tell a believer in Christ how he should live, the non believer (even if he doesn't choose to believe) should know exactly what Jesus would do. I can't speak about other religions. I don't know anything about them. Do non believers of these other religions hold them to a higher standard, a standard the non believers have created themselves and not necessarily what is really a part of these religions?

It is also superior because we know our eternity is with Christ.

What authority does the non believer have to tell a Christian a hypocrite?

it is not a matter of authority it is merely the dictionary defintion of hypocrite. - a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious, beliefs, principles, etc. , that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. If a person calls itself christian and then acts in a way that contradicts christian beliefs that person is a hypocrite.