Voices of the Heavens

My thoughts exactly. Thank you Owlwings.

Just because we don't exactly know how the universe (or multi-verse as I am inclined to believe via string theory) came in to being does not mean it was caused by a spiritual being. A mere hundred years ago we had no idea how the sun could burn for as long as it did under conventional means. Did it mean we it was because god made it so? No, it was just a process we did not yet understand. But we understand it in great detail now as "nuclear fission". Comets are another example. A few centuries ago, comets were considered supernatural and we had no understanding of them and therefore, the church declared them instruments and signs of god. Now we know they are just big dust filled snow balls. A lack of evidence or understanding of something is not evidence or understanding of another thing. The same could be said of the whole alien visitation issue. Just because we cannot identify or explain something we see in the sky, does that have to automatically mean it is an alien space craft?

And just like a century ago we did not know HOW, today...we cannot claim to know the WHY of these things. It is pretty arrogant of mankind to think what we know now is all there is to know. It is a matter of the will, your unbelief and my belief. You see only 'multiverse', I see a spiritual realm, unseen by human eyes but there nonetheless. I do not discount what science has found, I just see in it, the handiwork of the Creator. On the other hand, you choose to see only man's incomplete knowledge.

And I'm sure you know exactly how the universe came into being? Even world renown physicists and other scientists are struggling with that one. And some even conclude that this 'singularity' is an intellegence beyond our comprehension. http://www.big-bang-theory.com/ http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationTalk/message/1888 http://www.discoveryinstitutepress.com/in-the-beginning/interview.php http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html If God is who He claims to be in the Jewish and Christian scriptures, if He is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient...then there really is no way to scientifically 'prove' His existence. I believe because I see Intelligence behind the universe and living creatures within that universe. Rationally I know, where there is knowledge, language there is intelligence. See the last of those links. Einstein was not a believer in a 'personal' God as in one who interacts with the human race, but he did come to the conclusion that there was a Creator, an intelligence behind the universe.

Thank you for that validation. Everyone 'sees' what they choose to see. It is a fact that matter is effected by the observer, is it not? I choose to see this they way I do because thousands of years ago a man wrote the scriptures saying the heavens 'declare' the handiwork of God. And now centuries later his words are made more clear to us. The stars, the planets are declaring. Who could have know all those centuries ago that physical bodies made of matter could emit radio waves and mankind would know how to 'interpret' it as music? Oh well, those of you who see it 'merely' as a curiosity are the ones loosing out on the pure joy and amazement of knowing that we are loved by an AWESOME God who thought of our joy when He created the universe.

To me it is far more than a curiosity. One of the things that attracted me to astronomy was the unimaginable size of the universe and the diversity of all it contains. It is that which leads me to suspect there may be some higher power creating and using it all for their means and ends. I don't think science and religion have to be diametrically opposed. Why could a "god" not use the forces of gravity and fusion to create stars? Why could a god not use atoms and smaller particles almost like cosmic legos to create creatures and matter? See where I'm going with this? One of the things that drove Einstein insane was how his(ultimately accurate) theories seemed to cancel out his belief in god. But later in life he was able to reconcile the two with the same belief I just expressed.

Then we are in somewhat of an agreement. I say somewhat because I see also a tender care to make this universe beautiful, full of declarations of power and I see this earth within that mighty universe made a habitable and beautiful home for man. I see the mind of man as able to contemplate such beauty and majesty as reason to believe that God wants to communicate with us, wants us to be a suitable companion for Him and is not just some 'higher power' who created all this and 'walked away'. IF we are in HIS image, the good within us surely speaks of HIS goodness?

The first amendment only protects you from the power of the state, not fo being told that you are going overboard!

You ever hear of the first amendment? I'm sure you have. http://www.illinoisfirstamendmentcenter.com/religion.php I have BOTH the freedom of religion, AND the freedom of speech. And so do you. Your rights end where mine begin and visa versa. That is what makes us civilized. You can believe what you want, I can believe what I want. I can express my beliefs, so can you. I just thinks it is pretty sad that you feel the way you do in the face of something so awesome. To each their own.

And the freedom of speech also gives me the right to say you are wrong, does it not? Why does it bother unbelievers so much that believers have the SAME rights to say what they believe and to defend themselves from insults as unbelivers? Why so much energy expended to shut us up or insult us? It is because you REALLY believe in the free exchage of ideas, or you have no other arguments to defend your position and seek to remove any discussion of an alternative? If my belief is wrong, you are free to discount it and move on. YOUR FREEDOM of speech does not override mine.

Yeah, it really was enchanting and sublime. I loved that.

There is a universal language of the heart ans spirit of man. It is awesom to contemplate.

That is your right to believe. IT IS MY RIGHT TO INTERPRET THEM AS I DO AS WELL.

I re read your response and am sorry I read it wrongly. I was upset and tired. Forgive me please. While I am not as sure of the doctrine of the rapture as you are, I do agree that God is a powerful God and wants us to be blessed with the beauty of His Creation. Again, forgive me for my hasty reply and please understand that it came as a result of my all to human capacity to be overcome with frustration and weariness.

Thank you dragon. There are Bible verses that say the very rocks will cry out if man won't praise God, I'm searching for 'proof' of that as well. Do you remember seeing any text on how you can draw 'electrical power' from a lowly potato? All matter vibrates, and sound is vibration. How did they know thousands of years ago that 'matter vibrted'? Or that sound was 'vibration' through the airwaves? God IS good!

Thank you Kenzie! @Islander [i]3 They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. 4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.[/i]