How does raising taxes on someone else help you?
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
9 responses
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
26 Jul 11
How does raising taxes on someone else help me?
2 ways -
1 - It keeps necessary programs working and government offices open. When I need them they will be there.
2 - It protects my pockets. If the money is coming out of someone else's pockets it is not coming out of mine. Due to this past recession my weekly take home is $80 less than last year (I lost my job and had to find a new one) and my husband's take home has increased by $16 a week - so we have lost $64 a week (more than $3,000 a year) but prices on necessities have been skyrocketing - food, gas, etc. And, a lot of other people are worse off than we are.
So, if they want to take more taxes out of someone else, I am all for it - IF they can actually collect those taxes. The wealthiest people and corporations are also the ones most likely to be paying little to no income taxes or actually to be receiving payments back from the government - just look at GE's record.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Jul 11
Speakeasy, Obama has plenty of money in the Executive Branch budget to move around to make sure the checks go out.
Your second point is just silly. There is no evidence that taxing someone else more has ever lead to lowering taxes for someone else.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
28 Jul 11
Did either of you actually read the question being asked here?
The question is - How does raising taxes on someone else help you?
The question has nothing to do with whether it is morally, ethically, or politically correct (or even necessary) to raise taxes on one group of people versus another.
The question very simply is asking each of us to state how it helps each of us as individuals if taxes are raised on some group that we do not belong to.
If you do not like my answer that is your problem, not mine. Feel free to post your own answer to the question being posed (How does raising taxes on someone else help you?); but, don't come back and start telling me or anyone else that we are incorrect or wrong for having that opinion.
Also, I did not say that raising taxes on someone else would lower my taxes ("Your second point is just silly. There is no evidence that taxing someone else more has ever lead to lowering taxes for someone else.") I said if they are raising someone else's taxes they won't need to raise mine.
Not one word was said about it actually lowering the taxes I pay.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
26 Jul 11
"If the money is coming out of someone else's pockets it is not coming out of mine. "
Yup, that's all their is to it. It's fine to make other people pay taxes so long as you aren't one of those people. That's the problem with this country. Everyone's looking out for number one.
"It keeps necessary programs working and government offices open. When I need them they will be there."
Yeah, the wealthy people who you expect to pay for that aren't the ones standing in line at the welfare office. They're paying for services YOU benefit from, but they get nothing for it.
"The wealthiest people and corporations are also the ones most likely to be paying little to no income taxes or actually to be receiving payments back from the government"
I can't believe people are still repeating this lie. The top 1% of earners in this country are paying over 41% of the income taxes. That is a FACT. The bottom 49% pay ZERO income taxes. It's just that simple.
Are there millionaires that get away without paying income taxes? Yes. 1% (4000 total) of all millionaires manage to pull that off. 68% of those earning under 50K, a whopping 63.2 MILLION people pay nothing.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/09/pf/taxes/millionaires_income_tax/index.htm
@sam3m1 (190)
• United States
26 Jul 11
raising taxes on others, more specifically the wealthy and corporations in the usa, gets them into the game. right now corporations here have a 35% tax rate. terrible and apparently the highest in the world. however, the real corporate tax rate average is 6%, among the lowest in the world. the raise to individuals making over $250,000 is 4%. This is the same amount they haven't paid for the past ten years.
if these are the people who are the "job creators", where are the jobs they created during the bush years?
i don't think many of us want to unfairly burden corporations or wealthy individuals with unfair taxes, but if corporations make record profits and pay zero taxes, and get tax credits and the wealthy pay thousands to tax lawyers to avoid taxes, the slack (the amount they're not paying) must be taken up by the middle class. They may be paying the greatest percentage of taxes, but the are making extraordinary amounts of money and have been since the eisenhower administration.
to attempt to balance our budget by cutting medicare, medicaid, and social security benefits is unfair and immoral.
1 person likes this
@kenzie45230 (3560)
• United States
26 Jul 11
You don't get why they're not creating jobs? Really? They're not creating jobs because they have no clue what this government will pull next. When you're in business, there are things that are known and things on which you take risks. If you have a government that changes every time you turn around, you're not going to risk your money or the money of your investors, nor should you.
You've been deceived if you think that most businesses and the "rich" don't pay their fair share.
The people who are not paying their fare share are those who pay absolute no taxes at all. Worse are those who not only pay no taxes but get "refunds" of money they never paid in. (i.e. welfare disguised as refunds)
Let's get every wage earning American paying taxes of some kind. In fact, let's really be fair and make all Americans pay 15% without any deductions (which y'all like to call loopholes). And let's tax all businesses at 25% also with no deductions. That would be fare.
We still wouldn't have enough money, though, so we would have to start making those big cuts we need to make. Probably half of the government union jobs would be enough to help balance the budget. That and reducing the salaries and perks of the president, vp, and all of Congress.
@sam3m1 (190)
• United States
26 Jul 11
so the job creators aren't creating jobs because they don't have a clue what this admin. is going to do? and they didn't create jobs during the bush admin. because why?
i assume you're not rich. therefore, i also assume you don't mind paying for the taxes that the corporations don't pay, e.g. GE made 6 billion in 2010, paid no taxes and received $250 million in tax credits. sounds pretty fair to me.
the 15% straight tax sounds fine, unless your making $8000 a year, the average income in the 1st ward in new orleans when katrina hit.
you have a problem with the pres., etc. salary. no problem with the $10 million/per year the average ceo makes, which we also pay for?
anti-government is ok, but at least be reasonable about it. read or listen to something other than right wing media. they're feeding a lot of folks a lot of lies because it's easier for them to blame people they don't like or are afraid of.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
26 Jul 11
Once a tax is imposed on any one sooner or later it works it way done to more people. I have seen several states impose a sales tax to solve a financial problem only to find that they have to raise it every few years. Once the government has more tax money they spend it and then some then they need more money.
1 person likes this
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
27 Jul 11
I have no problem at all paying more in taxes, as long as it helps the country out. The last time I checked, we ALL are in this mess together, and we ALL should have to work to get out of it. I hate to tell you this, but history shows that raising taxes to pay down debt, then lowering them spurs the economy. It worked for Reagan and Clinton. We have cut taxes three times in the last 10 years, and the economy is struggling to create a job. Please show me where ONLY cutting taxes has actually netted more than 1 million jobs?
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
27 Jul 11
If you say you're willing to pay more in taxes, do you do it? There is no law setting the maximum you are allowed to pay. You can pay as much as you want.
@sierras236 (2739)
• United States
27 Jul 11
You would have liked Andrew Jackson. He was obsessed with paying down the National Debt. But considering he was a very racist President, he probably would never get elected in this political climate.
If I believed that raising taxes would actually be earmarked for paying down the debt, then maybe. But that clearly isn't the case.
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
26 Jul 11
To keep it short and simple....because they want someone else to pay the bills...not them. It's always better to spend somone elses money in a lot of peoples opinion. LOL
1 person likes this
@knoodleknight18 (917)
• United States
26 Jul 11
Well in the case of what's going on in America it does several things.
1 It can help alleviate cuts to programs that 90% of the people use and depend on.
2 If someone else pays a higher tax the budget can be closer to balanced without you paying a higher tax.
3 Probably most the most important one of all. When it comes to raising taxes on the rich or super rich it inhibits stagnation.
Here's why number 3 is so important. We all have jobs, if we spend most of what we make, most of the money we make continues to circulate and we keep each other employed through using each others services. Say there's one dollar, 20 people each use it to buy something in a big circle from one person to the next. That dollar has just produced 20 dollars worth of services and thus added $20 to the gdp.
Stagnation occurs when people save money or make more than they can spend. If someone doesn't spend the dollar it might then only be used for $10 in production, therefore the other 10 people lost $1 in usable revenue. Now lets take rich people, say Bill Gates (nothing against him personally). His estimated worth was $56 billion. Lets just say he actually had $56 billion in a vault somewhere and decided not to spend it. That's $56 billion out of circulation or in the case of 20 people passing around the same dollar about 1 trillion out of the GDP. Yes that's a little higher than what it would have come out to at least in the short term, but you see the point. Now if you start taxing the crap out of that $56 bil it starts moving around again creating lots of jobs.
Basically, what we have happening in America, is that all the rich people and corporations are either making far more than they can put back into circulation; or collectively hoarding billions of dollars. Which equals many more billions of dollars of jobs disappearing. Now that the jobs are gone the market sucks so they won't invest and possibly save more so the problem only gets worse. If they suddenly start paying more taxes that money starts moving again and eventually that dollar bill gets passed to more people essentially creating new jobs. Bar another economic lesson, the rich are collecting all the money by way of saving or by incredibly disproportionate salaries and it's killing the economy, which they themselves need to keep making money. Of course when you have the money to buy more than you could possibly use what's the incentive to actually spend it?
If that was all to complicated think of it like Italian dressing. As long as you stir it, the dressing stays mixed and you have good dressing. If you stop, it starts to separate (stagnation). Eventually, you just have all the oil (money {ironic isn't it}) on top, and everything else (people/jobs) just sits on the bottom doing nothing. Spending stirs the dressing, investing stirs the dressing, and lastly taxes can stir the dressing. Thinking of the oil as money, the less that sits on top the more there is going around everywhere else. If it starts to settle on top that's everyone else from bottom up going broke.
On a personal level, that's what I have against the rich. Not that they are rich or have more; but that they take so much more than they can practically use, that it's costing others what they need.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
26 Jul 11
Your stagnation claim is both wrong and short-sighted. Do you really think that money saved does NOTHING? How do you think banks make loans? Where does that money come from? It comes from SAVED money that is not being spent. Banks don't simply OWN a lot of money. They are stewards of other people's money. If Bill Gates is saving say, $20 billion in a bank account, then that bank has $20 billion to loan to small businesses, prospective homeowners, people buying cars, etc. Not only that, those banks are employing bankers, tellers, janitors, computer technicians, independent contractors who repair the ATMs, and a whole host of other people either directly or indirectly. That money is not stagnating by any stretch of the imagination.
Even if such money were stagnating, that would be money out of circulation. a lack of circulating money slows inflation. That's one of the reasons inflation has been low during this recession after getting completely out of control during the housing boom.
"It didn't say plasma tv and blu-ray player did it?"
So these luxuries don't count because it's possible to have BIGGER luxuries?
"Look at more important things, only 40% had a computer, most job apps were done online back then."
Back then you could still apply for most jobs with a pen and paper. Most libraries also offered free computer use with high speed internet. I know because I've worked in libraries since 2004. That and I applied for that job on paper, not online as it wasn't available at that library until 2009.
"Poor is relative."
It sure is and we, by far, have the richest poor people on the planet. Heck, our poor people are so rich that their biggest problem is being fat, and I don't mean overweight, I mean they need to break through walls to get them out and use forklifts to get them out of a chair. Drop by Somalia, Guatemala, or some other country and tell me how many fat poor people you see.
@kenzie45230 (3560)
• United States
26 Jul 11
Did you know that we spend billions helping poor people who are not poor?
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979717078
@knoodleknight18 (917)
• United States
26 Jul 11
I don't see how it relates to the topic but okay.
For starters, the "poor" aren't paying taxes and getting money from people who are, so when other peoples taxes go up it's at least beneficial that theirs didn't.
While the data is correct it's misleading. First off, in 2005 you can get a color tv and a dvd player for under $100. It didn't say plasma tv and blu-ray player did it? Look at more important things, only 40% had a computer, most job apps were done online back then. Half had a washer and dryer, that's a pretty basic need and most houses have them, there's laundry mats but you pay $5 a load. 25% had dishwashers, does anyone with any sort of money not have a dishwasher? A car can mean a $500 clunker that barely runs. Ooh a microwave, people give those away too their broke friends all the time. More living space than europe, that's because people living in suburbs and rural areas have more living space.
Poor is relative. You can say they aren't poor but most of them are living on 10-15k a year or less. Does poor need to mean homeless and hungry, because then as soon as you give them food they aren't poor until you feed them again. Does the system get abused? Of course, it gets abused at all levels. But if you can afford a used car for $1,000 on a $15k/year budget good for you. Try living off of $1,000 budget for 2 months and see what it's like, you can save money but you probably wouldn't like it even you didn't save any. Oh that includes bills, rent everything.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
26 Jul 11
I think raising taxes because of envy is a wrong thing. Also I believe that there should be a tax free base that anyone below it should not have to pay income tax and what income tax they have should be returned. I am also against so much regulations and red tapes that make it unable for businesses to hire, such as Obamacare.
The thing is where taxes are concerned, those who scream for higher taxes, just think of the federal income tax. They do not consider the state income tax and the other taxes that these individuals pay. I can see eliminating some deductions, but not charity deductions because they help those who are wealthy give more to the poor and charities for churches because the charities pay for the pastor's salaries, etc. Raising taxes however would cause businesses to let more people go, and once you start, you cannot stop.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
27 Jul 11
Sierras236 is right. Companies do not mind taxes if they are fare, but taxes that are put on specifically to transfer wealth from the rich to the poor are unfair and especially if the wealthy companies are already paying taxers. They also want less regulations that is less unjust regulations that prevent them from hiring more people and expanding their businesses. The rich do not mind helping the poor, but they would rather make it possible for them to get training and higher education rather then give them money and sit on their butts and do nothing.
@sierras236 (2739)
• United States
27 Jul 11
Yes, they would. Their investors would demand it. The main purpose of a company is to make money.
But you are missing the real problem. The tax raises aren't really the issue. If a company knows they are coming, they will make adjustments to deal with them. The problem is the uncertainty of not knowing whether they are going to have to pay that money. So, the company will do what it does to ensure that it will survive even if it means laying off 200 people and keeping the million dollar CEO that made them money in the past. It is called business logic.
1 person likes this
@knoodleknight18 (917)
• United States
26 Jul 11
So you're telling me if a business that nets over $2 billion in after cost profits had to pay $1 million more in taxes they would have to fire 200 people they needed enough to hire in the first place to make up that cost rather than take it from the multimillion dollar payouts their executives get? Because they just couldn't make due with 9.5 million a year instead of the usual 10.
1 person likes this
@kenzie45230 (3560)
• United States
26 Jul 11
The only thing that would help any of us would be if all wage earning Americans actually paid some taxes.
It helps none of us if they raise taxes on the rich or on corporations. Of course they're not creating jobs right now. This is the most unfriendly to business administration we've ever had. The cost of business has gone up because of fuel costs, because of regulations, because of what they're already forced to do under Obamacare and what they'll be forced to do under Obamacare later. Having a government that changes its mind as the wind blows means that the risk of expansion is great. Why bother?
@lilbabycatapillar (497)
• United States
26 Jul 11
This is a pretty loaded question, because it's very assuming and finger-pointing. The government runs on money, and it has to come from somewhere. I've personally never cheered when taxes have been raised, because it's not exactly surprising. One way or another, I don't like to hear people complain when they have enough money to eat, are treated with dignity, and are comfortable in their daily lives. If paying more taxes to pay for the many things our government has to do doesn't interfere with personal happiness and comfort, it's not a problem.