Twilight
@ReverendShaggy (415)
Philippines
August 23, 2011 6:11am CST
Let me start by saying I have posted my feelings on Twilight in a few other posts already. I decided I would make my personal post with my feelings and see what feed back I get from all of you.
I cannot stand Twilight. Whether it is the books or the movies. The first and foremost aspect that really irritates me so badly is sparkling vampires. I have seen many people say well vampires are not real and an author has a right to show them as they see fit. While yes writers do have a right to do this, I really feel there is an unwritten rule that you do not just totally change an aspect of an accepted and established character. Vampires burn and turn to ash in sunlight. This has been common knowledge for a very long time. It was not so in Braam Stoker's Dracula, but that could be attributed to Dracula being the first.
The story of Bella and Edward although is a love story is nowhere as realistic as previous versions of vampire love stories. I say this because you have seen The way the love works in these before. While it is always a struggle with it, The vampires have never tried to deny what they are. By them saying they are vegetarian vampires is just a really juvenile way to attract modern teenagers into saying oh that is my culture that's sounds cool. In truth the comment is an oxymoron and should not even be used.
The final bit is He is just way to emo even for a vampire. We all saw, I'm pretty sure, Gary Oldman in Bram Stoker's and Brad Pitt in Interview with The Vampire. These to were very emotional but they were not a little whiny kid who was upset because his perm didn't hold.
Let me know how you all feel about Twilight and give me reasons why you support or do not support. Have a good day
10 responses
@chicksdigscars (5483)
•
23 Aug 11
Ok.. i am soooo mad at you right now lol! because i adore twilight! and that is really something, because i hate ANY thing to do with vampires. i hated blade, buffy, 30 days of night, interview with a vampire, everything.. vampires are stupid, and annoying.. and just a load of crap.
but i watched twilight based on the love story.. more than them being vampires. so when you are saying that Bella and Edwards story is stupid, you are making me mad lol! Because that is the only reason I watched, and now love the films! .. firstly, have you seen the films? Or read the books? Stephanie Meyer is an amazing author! Her work is of a very high literary standard, and better than the vast majority of books and novels I studied while I studied English literature for 7 years! ..
The love story isn’t stupid, because the basis of their connection, the Cullens denying what they are, and allowing Bella and Edward to establish any kind of a relationship.. is not stupid. I mean that is the POINT of the book.. what would you have preferred? Her to write a book in which the Cullens just destroy forks, and boom, the end? The book isn’t saying that this is the way vampires behave, and based on previous films, and literature, yes, we are lulled into believing that they are blood sucking cannibals and the human race doesn’;t stand a chance. But this wouldn’t make for very good reading. It’s a bit been there, done that. Nor would she have been able to make Twilight a love story, if Edward was literally going to meet Bella and tear out her jugular! So the story of the Cullens acting as “vegetarian” vampires was merely a new spin on things.. besides, I think if vampires were around today, and after years of being hunted down with holy water and crusifixes, the vampires may have thought, hold on a minute, we are severly outnumbered despite our “powers” and it would be nice to maybe maintain some sort of relationship with other members of society! .. so that’s what Stepheanie Meyer did.. she “progressed” the world of the Vampires!
In relation to the Vampires turning to dust in the sunlight.. it was set in Forks, where it was never really sunny, at most they maybe had a dim light lol, even in the film it’s constantly overcast and looks like it’s about to rain! So technically the vampires shouldn’t have burst into flames anyway! .. but again, how realistic was a love story going to be if the only time the vampire, who didn’t sleep, could see the mortal, was at night, when she needed to sleep? The aspect of them shinning in the light, is just slightly more believable.. again because she want to progress the vampires, and make them slightly more civilised, I think someone would have noticed people that didn’t come out during the day.. they couldn’t have attended schools, had josb etc.. so the very foundations of the story would have been ruined from the outset if they burst into flames.
And then the whole thing about Edward being emo? Again! Progression! .. it wouldn’t have been plausible for Edward or the rest of the Cullens to be the anguished, awkwardly posed vampires of previous generations, they once again, would not have fitted into modern day society, and therefore the story would never, and could never have been written! .. if everything you pointed out that was “wrong” with the book, was made “right” .. it would actually open the door for even more errors, and even more things that didn’t make sense.. and he isn’t emo, he’s dark and mysterious and brooding! A true man inlove haha!!
None of this was meant to sound cheeky, this is the only discussion that has really interested me today.. so I went for it lol!
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@chicksdigscars (5483)
•
23 Aug 11
Haha you’re welcome, I glad I gave you the challenge you wanted lol!
I don’t really have much to say on “The Host” because I actually haven’t read it, but from what I just looked up there online, it seemed to have been written to appeal to an older demographic, a group older than those who would have been interested in the Twilight saga.. so unless she has written Twilight in a way that is easier and more appealing, and can be more wide spread in its fame and likeability and to appeal to those who may enjoy a lighter read, than those who enjoy harder hitting and more intense books, like the Host, as that’s what it seems to be from what I’ve just read about it?
I don’t think she jumped on the vampire bandwagon though and I don’t really think you can say much about the originality. As I’ve said, I haven’t read the host, so I can’t offer much of an opinion on her creature originality in that aspect, but I don’t think it was originality she was going for. I think the fact that she didn’t alter the basic formula of the vampires was on purpose, it was a good thing, because it allowed the reader to draw on what they already knew about vampires, because they weren’t changed that much. The reader was able to house what they already knew, the basis, the foundations, the pros, the cons, the likeability factors, and the factors they disliked, and still see them in a different light. So I think it was good that she hadn’t changed anything, was actually quite genius, and not laziness at all. Because although you say she tacked on things to make them “unique” in her stories, I don’t think she did! I think she tacked on things to make the story more believable and modern and to make the story be able to take place.. because if she hadn’t “tacked on” their glimmering in the sunshine.. the entire events in the book couldn’t really have happened, what with Bella and the other mortals being curled up in bed asleep.. if you get me?
I hear what you’re saying about the progression being so abrupt, but technically it wasn’t. the progression WAS abrupt in the book, but Stephanie Meyer referred a lot to the past of the vampires and how they weren’t always this civilised and still many aren’t.. she did cater to the steady progression in her descriptions of the vampires legacy and past. So while the progression is abrupt for those of us who have only ever read and watched the “typical” vampire culture, she did cater to this “flaw” in her novel? ..
“The love story in Twilight as I said just shows me the girl has no idea who she loves and is destroying both of their lives, no matter how it ended. She still ruined their lives needlessly. If she truly loved either one she would not have put them through the ringer like that.” ? I don’t really grasp what you mean here.
In terms of the whole Transylvania, precious metals thing.. I quite obviously cannot answer for Stephanie Meyer, but to add something like that into the book, I would have found it tedious, pointless and utterly trivial! When a book like that is read, it isn’t common practice to analyse every little detail like that, despite the fact that we are. But I think it’s safe to say we are a minority for sure! .. information like that could have been well researched by Ms. Meyer, and gave her the idea for the shimmering skin, allowing her to make that altercation without it being entirely fictional in relation to other Vampire stories.. just because she didn’t add it into the book, doesn’t prove she didn’t know it. I just think there would have been no justification in entering that somewhere, and I cannot even see where she would add it, into the novel. Also.. she has based a Vampire “headquarter” around Italy.. whereas Transylvania is in Romania.. so it probably would have greatly confused matters about the origins?
The end.. haha!
I think I’ve covered everything you’ve said in your discussion in my first comment, and in your comment in my second comment lol!
1 person likes this
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
1 Sep 11
No worries I just thought you got tired of the discussion LOL.
As far as Bella not doing that, sure she does. Even if it is just because she felt alone initially because of Edward leaving, it still gave rise to the thought in Jacob's mind that he really did mean that much to her. Granted it does happen in the real world for sure, but it still isn't realistic. What I mean by that is she continues trying to figure out who she loves even though she knows she loves Edward yet keeps stringing Jacob along. Even in the real world a girl will tell the other guy a lot quicker than Bella did in the novels. Even though through this she uses Jacob as a pawn to make Edward want to stay even more which once again is not love.
I will give you that they probably already know most of it anyway and yes it wasn't really explicit but it is very much alluded too much more then need be. I agree teeny boppers is because of Edward. As far as Goosebumps the age group for that to me has always been 8 to 12 because that was how old I was in school reading them.
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
23 Aug 11
Well thank you for the comment. First off to me this is the whole point of discussions, to get reactions so that people will make a worth while argument for their side of it. Very well done.
As far as me seeing the movies yes and as far as the books every last one of them I have read. That may be part of the reason I am so angry with it though. I have also read The Host written by her and it makes The whole Twilight series feel like elementary school writing. I also understand that The Host came out somewhere in the middle of the Twilight saga, but to me that would mean the rest following her writing of The Host would have been as good if not better than that book, but they are not. I also very much appreciate The Host because it does show she can truly do originality. She made original creatures in that novel that of course had similarities to other known ones but they were her own, whereas the vampires in Twilight have a tacked on difference that makes them "unique" I don't buy that for a second, that was laziness. If not laziness then it was just the simple fact that she wanted to cash in on a general knowledge of vampires which shows lack of passion in your craft to me.
I agree that progression can and should happen, otherwise things do get stale. On that same note an abrupt progression can just be infuriating. The love story in Twilight as I said just shows me the girl has no idea who she loves and is destroying both of their lives, no matter how it ended. She still ruined their lives needlessly. If she truly loved either one she would not have put them through the ringer like that,
Now one final note I will say is that if she had stated or had in the novels that Edward and his family were truly from Transylvania, then I could have let the sparkling slide. I say that because in the early and middle ages it is believed that the water in that area was very phosphorous and when people bathed it would leave remnants of precious metals and rocks on their skin. But with knowing that also shows me that she did no research for her novels either truly.
And as far as being so mad at me, ya know it won't last so it's all good ;)
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@enigma13 (372)
• Philippines
24 Aug 11
Hey ReverendShaggy! First off, I enjoyed the discussion you and chicksdigscars had on the previous response. This is one of the most technical and educated discussions on The Twilight Saga I have read so far. Good job to the both of you.
I love The Twilight Saga. I love the books more than the movie versions. Movie versions are always altered and as a result, they always suck. I can't give you a technical discussion on the author's writing style or the way the story progressed. I just want to point out that in my case, what lured me into the novel was what you hated about it in the first place. Sparkling vampires. =) I love that Stephenie Meyer was able to successfully break the stereotype when it comes to vampires. No fangs, not afraid of crosses, and doesn't turn to ashes under the sun. I guess for me it's better than the usual vampire novels because of the "sparkling vampire" idea. It's new and original. The love story is just a bonus.
PS- I find it stupid that a vampire was able to impregnate a human though.
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@chicksdigscars (5483)
•
31 Aug 11
awwww thanks!! shaggy we should start a major debating team here on mylot haha!! you need to comment more on my discussions then ;) haha! :)
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
24 Aug 11
Thank you for your response. I'm glad you found enjoyment in reading the discussion thread as well. Thank you for giving your reasons for enjoying the saga as well as stating the books more so than the movies, that really does make a world of difference. I totally agree about the pregnancy thing LOL.
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@Suzieqmom (2755)
• United States
24 Aug 11
Hi Reverend Shaggy,
I was very underwhelmed by the movie as well--I thought it was worse than the book, and that's saying something. The liberties taken with vampire mythology and folklore didn't bother me as much as the actual love story, however. The whole premise behind the books--that she was going to give up her LIFE at 18 for a "man" she wasn't even sure she loved was very troubling to me--especially since he was portrayed as having an unnatural power over her. The whole story had too much of a "Lolita-ish" quality to it. This theme continues throughout the series, with the whole werewolf imprinting issue--especially when the werewolf imprints on Bella's infant DAUGHTER. Very troubling in a book written for teens and pre-teens.
And the fact that she, as a modern high school girl, is willing to give up college, a career, her family, and ultimately her life, for love, is both unrealistic and chilling at the same time. The saga is supposed to be uplifting and moralistic--waiting for marriage, monogamy (of sorts), but I think it portrays Bella as an anachronistic, outdated, and subservient character--hardly the role model I would want for my kids.
Finally, I agree with you that Edward is too emotional--and too one-dimensional. She did a better job developing Jacob as a realistic and more likeable character. Honestly, after doing my best to read all of the books (the last one was just too trite for me to complete), and watch all of the movies in an effort to understand what made this series so popular, I still cannot figure out why she chose Edward over Jacob--the way the saga is written, he is the more romantic, heroic and loveable character. Just my thoughts!
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
26 Aug 11
I like how well you went into you explanation. Thank you very much. It gives me something to respond to :). The way you put the problems with the romance is very true as well. I never thought to describe it that way but totally agree. I will also give that Jacob was definitely much more thought out and defined, so much more than a one dimensional character honestly.
@Suzieqmom (2755)
• United States
26 Aug 11
Well, your original discussion, as well as some of the posts following it, were well-written and detailed, too--that makes it so much easier to respond in kind!
Had the Twilight saga been targeted at adults, or even older kids, I probably would not have felt that way (after all, I read Lolita in college as part of an assigned curriculum). But the fact that Twilight is geared towards pre-teens is what gave me pause when reading it. Kids that age are so easily influenced--and scarred--that I think parents should think twice about letting younger children read these books or watch these movies.
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
23 Aug 11
Hello Reverandshaggy
I don't share your dislike for Twilight. I have read the trilogy and I have watched Twight 50 times if I have watched it once. I'm really glad that these vampires are not dark coffin sleeping monsters. I love the story. My only problem with the movie is that there is a lot of drab colors in it. Like everything is filtered with a mousy green. I guess there is a reason for it. I actually try to study the movie each time I watch it. I never tire of this movie. There are only a few movies that I can watch over and over and Twilight isnone of them.
I also believe the author looked outside of the box when developing the character of the vamps and everyone else. For lack of a better description, I think calling themselves vegetarians was ingenious. That set them apart from the other vampires. I love the movie and I want the others too. I just haven't had the extra money to get them. Other things are more pressing.
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@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
24 Aug 11
Yeah, I have the book too. I may just read the book over again... actually Eclipse is the one I think i want to read over again... I have all 3 of them.. there are 2 more out I want to read when I get paid. Breaking Dawn, and The Host.
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
24 Aug 11
I just looked up on Amazon for these books and found them at great prices... I'll order from there when I get paid. They are cheaper than trying to buy them in the store.
@gr8jordan (43)
• China
24 Aug 11
Yeah,i love the Twilight sooooooooooo Much.I have watched the movie for 57 times.
What's more i have read the book too.Support!!!!!
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@Cherizette (76)
• Guyana
23 Aug 11
To tell the truth I don't like vampire movies, but my students made me watch it when I lost a bet while I was teaching in KSA. They even wanted us to charter a plane to Dubai to watch the movie.
As a Vampire movie it is 0 out of 10. But as a love movie it's kind of cool. Yes a little bit cheesey. I understand how you feel. I probably feel the same way about J.Lo being an actress.
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
23 Aug 11
hahahah I feel that way about J Lo too, just sayin. As far as what you said, that is kind of my point. If the story had been her own creations or something with the love story I might have been able to buy into it a little more. Thank you for your comment, I hope you have a good day.
@bond027 (107)
• India
23 Aug 11
I am also not that great fan of the Twilight franchise but I like it as its a nice love story of two uncommon people..haha..!! And the best thing about the movie that I like to watch is the Heroine of the movie who has so many confusions in her mond..She even doesn't know whom she loves actually,,She is so messed up..:-)
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
23 Aug 11
See I can understand the initial appeal of the love story aspect. I actually love a good love story. This one is not a good love story though to me, for the exact reasons you mention. She keeps flip=flopping on who she loves. All that tells me is that she doesn't love either one of them at all simply the idea of them. With that being the case it wastes my time because it is a story with if nothing less a convoluted and dishonest ending. I will say I have read the books so that I could see if they improved and they did not. I will also say the movies are good to sit and watch with your significant other because the battles between the werewolves and vampires are at least well done. However it is still a time waster and I have never felt that way about books especially.
@celticeagle (164045)
• Boise, Idaho
24 Aug 11
I am very disappointed in these new youth type vampire books and movies. I am a Anne Rice Vamp fan. I like the old ones. Yes and Bram Stoker ofcourse. I think these new ones are a cop out. I like True Blood and their ways on there but this show seems almost like a laugh at vamps. I think it is a very imaginative and interesting way to take the vamp story to another level. I do not support Twilight at all. I think it is like Vampire Diaries although Diaries has more history with it and I like that. Twilight is just a love story. With werewolves thrown in for no more reason than basic writing and the need for a antagonist. As a writer I was totally disappointed in these stories and although I haven't read the books I see the basic downfall.
@vycess (1588)
• Saudi Arabia
23 Aug 11
That is why there are fiction books right? That is fiction and it is really unrealistic. If you want realistic ones then don't watch or read fiction. The writer has the right to write what he/she imagines and think of. The writer has wide range of imagination and it might started with the common or established character of a vampire. And she captures many viewers because of the complicated situation of the two lovers. I think she did a great job of thinking and writing it. This is my opinion. Good day.
@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
23 Aug 11
It is fiction and in general I love fiction. However with this series I feel very strongly that she doesn't show a wide range of imagination as much as she shows how lazy she is to not at least make a totally new creature herself with these features as opposed to using the cheap way of saying they are vampires and whatnot.
Thank you for your comment and your views on this subject. I really appreciate your input into this discussion.
@stanley777 (9402)
• Philippines
23 Aug 11
I don't really have a strong opinion about this movie, i haven't even tried watching ti since I prefer movies with more action and excitement. I did buy the dvd since my daughter wanted to watch it.. she was also disappointed by it though.
I don't get why lots of teens love it so much..it's not so special.
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@ReverendShaggy (415)
• Philippines
23 Aug 11
I had to think for a little bit to respond back to you honestly. It threw me off that your daughter was disappointed LOL. Did she also read the books and is just upset it didn't follow them as closely as it should have? As far as it being so special, you are right not so much at all. Thank your for your response.
@chiwasaki (4694)
• Philippines
6 Sep 11
I watched all of the Twilight movies but I'm not a fan. I just don't get it why they are so hooked in Twilight. Probably because of the romance factor and the good looks of the casts. I love the Interview With A Vampire movie more than this one.
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