Twisting evidence to suit theory instead of adjusting theory to conform
@DaddyOfTheRose (2934)
United States
August 25, 2011 11:05am CST
Twisting evidence to suit theory instead of adjusting theory to conform to evidence.
This discussion topic involves the tendency to people to avoid facing the truth. The inspiration for this particular line of thought comes from a Sherlock Holmes quote. "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." ~~ A Scandal in Bohemia, pg 163 ( http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes )
When engaged in discussion with people, I have at times found simply laying their beliefs against each other to show their incompatibility is inadequate to establish a change of their opinions. In other words, if I can show a person that two statements they've made regarding on conclusion are mutually incompatible it does not seem to mandate any adjustment to their beliefs. Their opinion cannot be changed by logic or evidence because it seems to have been formed in the absence of either and remains unfazed by logic. A Teflon brain, if you will, were reasons don't stick.
A similar though to the above might be, "Never argue with a fool they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" ~~ Unknown. Essentially, you will find in life people who belief what they wish without evidence or in contrast to evidence and seem blithely happy to do so.
So my question to you, my reason for this discussion would be this: What experiences of yours would you care to share regarding this type of scenario and / or, how do you approach such situations?
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2 responses
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
26 Aug 11
Basically, any time I have tried to debate with a "believer" in God. Scriptural incompatabilities are explained away in the most specious of terms, and I find it so frustrating that these days I don't debate with them, I simply propound.
Lash
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@DaddyOfTheRose (2934)
• United States
26 Aug 11
Faith can be a tricky thing, but there must be some value in it. Religions place limits on behavior, require time, and demand tithes. Evolution would indicate it should be slowly removed from the population by negative selective pressures unless it provides something to counterbalance the demands it makes. Therefore, as religions exist and persist, they must serve some purpose and have some value for the adherents. Ergo, to completely dismiss the notion seems ill-advised.
Even so, religions can busy themselves in too much theology and dogma. I prefer to keep and open mind and see if there is any wisdom that these religions lines of thought can impart which makes my life better for accepting it. Generally speaking, their theology and tradition are not of great concern to me.
I will admit to often finding those whom I'd call "believers" to be more than a little annoying because they seem to think by burying their nose in their scriptures they can uncover all the most important answers for life. I disagree. In particular that book is mostly inadequate in addressing domestic violence, giving no clear indications for what behavior of husband to wife crosses the acceptable line and providing no guidelines for how to discipline children in a manner that is actually effective as opposed to abusive.
For an inerrant bible, it certainly misses some pretty central points. (Or at least doesn't directly address them.)
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
27 Aug 11
I have no issues with spirituality, even religion if it is flexible. It is scriptural inerrancy and the rigidity of fundamental thought that gripes me. The concept of "intelligent design" may be proven right in the long run, but if and when it is, the possibility that the "God" thus revealed will have the slightest similarity to any of the anthropomorphic representations of divinity that humans have invented is so remote as to be non-existent, as is the thought that any such creator will have even the slightest interest in human endeavours. And whilst the best features of the various organised religions, the variants of the Golden Rule etc., may well provide a decent moral compass, that same morality can be found in totally non-religious philosophies: one does not have to be a good Christian/Muslim/Jew/Buddhist/Hindu etc. to be a good person.
Lash
@Fireheart (683)
• India
25 Aug 11
Something in your discussion caught my eye of a quote, "never argue with a fool and that they will bring you to that level with experience" now this is pure truth i must say its truth by my experience, the thing is that what we say is the real truth but that fool may change us or derail of our original truth and thus misguiding our right direction, and yea twisting the case with theory just to prove that we are right is also the general truth that some still do, i must admit i totally agree to all this, nice of you to bring it up with a discussion, we all must firstly analyse a case before we bring forth our theory.
@DaddyOfTheRose (2934)
• United States
25 Aug 11
I've always enjoyed a good proverb. :) Something that seems true upon reading it and fits will with intuitive experience. I have a tangentially related set of proverbs.
"There are none so blind as they who will not see."
"There are not so deaf as they who will not hear."
And mashed together,
"None so blind as who will not see,
So deaf as will not hear,
So lost as will not be found." ~~ Me.
@Fireheart (683)
• India
26 Aug 11
I understand this but its sort of difficult for me to express it,I do and support something which is truth, as a matter of fact some proverbs are true and by experience it is real those sort of proverbs gives me motivation in life, failures are the pillars of success that we have heard of it for a long time, through failures in life we understand from that failure we overcome it with possible understanding of it thus the path to success can be achieved, there are many as such proverb by experience that will give people the wisdom to live.
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