Should we let people die if they choose to not have insurance?
By andy77e
@andy77e (5156)
United States
September 14, 2011 7:18am CST
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-uninsured-die-163216817.html
The short answer is.... This is BS question.
People who don't have insurance, can still go to the hospital, can still get treated and healed.
They get something really amazing in return. It's called a "Bill". It's a statement in the mail requesting payment for services. How do I know this? I went to the hospital without insurance, and got this "bill" thing in the mail.
What did I do? I "paid" the "bill". Why? Because the treatment really helped, and I actually believe I should pay for service I receive. By the way... how much money do you think I earned the year of this bill? $17K.
And I still paid my bill! :D
So the question in and of itself, is complete crap.
But why not have government pay for health care?
Because taking from one group of people, to pay for other irresponsible people, is socialism, and socialism always fails.
Did everyone miss the fact the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore? The USSR, like all socialist systems, fails when you run out of money from productive wise people, to pay for non-work stupid people.
When you pay for stupidity, more people become stupid. Take Hawaii's free child health care plan. Many people forget this even happened. Hawaii passed a bill to provide free health care for every child that didn't have health care.
The system went broke almost instantly, and was canceled. Why? Because the responsible people said "oh look, those irresponsible parents who didn't get insurance for their child, got free care from the government! We'll cancel our insurance and get it free too!"
And that's exactly what happened. People canceled their insurance, so they could qualify for government health insurance. By paying people to be irresponsible, you encourage idiocy.
And tell me, what happens when the irresponsible, out number the responsible? You end up with California hospitals closing because the number of patients that got care, and didn't pay, out numbered the paying people... Hospital gone. No care anymore.
Or you end up like Massachusetts, with doctors refusing gov-care patients, and leaving the state.
Or you end up like Canada, where the rich people fly to the US for care, and the poor people wait in 4 year long lists to get help.
When you pay people to be stupid, they become more stupid. You'd think we learned that from Welfare, where mothers were paid more for every kid they popped out, so they just went around popping out kids to increase their welfare check. And then their kids learned from them, and they went around popping out kids.
And in just a few short decades, we had 3rd generation welfare queens that never worked a single day in their lives, or their parents lives, or their grandparents lives. Hello?!?! FAIL?!
The answer is personal responsibility. You don't pay for health insurance, you don't get health insurance. You go to the hospital without health insurance, you get a bill. You pay the bill.
Time for babies to start growing up. You take care of your own self child of America. Stop being little girls and boys, and start being women and men.
Stop this 'wah wah wah! The want us to die! wah wah wah" Crap.
3 people like this
10 responses
@Fire10 (293)
• United States
17 Sep 11
Hmmm... What is hilarious is that I just posted a comment with a similar sentiment. As soon as the government becomes responsible, we as a people become more irresponsible.
My view on healthcare is that if people are going to call it unconstitutional to require people to buy healthcare (and receive it) than it is even more retardedly unconstitutional to require people to provide healthcare without being paid for it.
Personally I would advocate that if someone doesn't have healthcare AND they choose to go to the ER, their checks should be garnered at a reasonable rate until it is paid off. After a certain dollar/month threshold the remainder burden can be distributed out equally on their family whose checks may be garnered (their siblings, parents, children). Health SHOULD BE far more of a family concern than it is a government one. If a health bill, once distributed thus far still results in a monthly payment above a certain amount, the burden can be spread out another layer within the family (aunts, uncles, grand children, grandparents). After that spread, the government may get involved paying.
I think this puts the responsibility more on the individual and help prevent free loaders. If someone's family can then look at them and say "What the hell? You should be paying this yourself." It puts a little pressure there so that the person will be more inclined to pay their own debt. If someone in the family really needs help - the family SHOULD help (more than the government should).
And to be bigoted, bitter, angry, and obviously unrealistic - if a whole family structure is crucially impaired, whiny, and irresponsible then anybody not breaking from that sad, pitiful family tradition should be sterilized, forbidden the option of adoption, and any existing children should be divided amongst people who are less ethically or responsibility challenged. ;)
I just included the last tirade because some people are disgusting to me - on the inside. And in all fairness, Andy, though I agree with your general opinion you do come across somewhat like my last paragraph - which - although I do feel that way - I am somewhat ashamed that I couldn't come up with a better solution... but I do hate irresponsibility and irresponsible people. (note I do not hate people in dire economic circumstances, I just hate people in dire character circumstances).
1 person likes this
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
16 Sep 11
Personally here in the US there are some things that Scare me about the New proposed Health Care system, and how since they are always complaining about $$ going to be able to help everyone without the coverage for some of the simpler things like Diabetes not be able to help? I really hope that this is not going to happen if this Health care deal really takes effect, and I do agree ... look at what is already happening out there. Do we need more people FAKING their illness so they do not have to work just for the common Tax payer to be reliable for it? Most people even with insurance who work are having problems paying the Medical as is.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
17 Sep 11
Actually, how does someone who works, get medicaid? I'm asking because even back when I was working for minimum wage...I did not qualify. As a single mom with only my income...I never qualified. I don't think it is any different now. My daughter just had a baby and she is working for minimum wage and she doesn't qualify and she is only working part time. Yes the budget would be a whole lot better if they'd stop giving businesses tax breaks to hire foreign people who come here expense free and fully insured because our government pays for it!!! Where my daughter works, when they hire these people, her hours get cut down to next to nothing. And we are whining about people here that can't afford health coverage and yet we are ok with this??? Awesome!!
1 person likes this
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
17 Sep 11
Well, I think that is part of the problem. They tell people or almost beg them to cheat the system, instead of helping those who are trying to help themselves. Too many times they deny Birth control, but then give out $$ and Food stamps etc. for the kids these moms have. Now if they would make them work for the money it would make them be more aware as I have always felt working people should be the ones getting most of the help unless a person has a Bad enough disability to where there is no way that they could ever work. Or better yet, take some of the Bonus's they are giving to the Big companies to help pay Medical and Social security for those who really need it.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
17 Sep 11
I know people who work part time even that don't get medicaid because they don't qualify. The people at welfare tell people not to take a job that pays under a certain wage or offers less than 40.00 hours or they'll regret it. Why? because they lose all of their medicaid benefits. I think they maybe might cover the children but they don't cover the adults unless they are disabled and/or out of work...at least in my State they don't.
1 person likes this
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
14 Sep 11
How refreshing! I gotta say, I like your style! And I'm in agreement with you. I think it's good to help folks if they get in a bind, but all too often they end up being supported by government (I.e. other people's money / tax payer money) for the rest of their lives.. and look at how much we pay for single parenthood, touted by the left as the ultimate in freedom.. aka, free love etc.. which reminds me - No-thing is FREE! Even those on the receiving end will find out eventually (when big bro's shadow truly darkens their life) that it isn't "free" at all.. HuGe government reach is not to the good.. that's why this nation drafted the u.s. constitution, not to limit the people's rights as many seem to think, but to limit government and government's rights.
If the government is in charge of handing all things out, what will happen in the case of serious drought and/or shortage occurs? Whose children will go without? the gov's own or the peoples? Think world think, before it's too late.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
15 Sep 11
Um...I'm a single parent, Flowerchilde, and I work full time. I raised 4 kids on my own. I was married and then divorced so not everyone falls into your little category of judging. I actually pay into the system and don't qualify for anything because I do work!! Still, there is no way that I can afford health insurance or to even walk into that place. I just pray that I'm healthy enough. I pay into this system every single week. You are ok with calling me irresponsible simply because I can't afford health insurance? Really? lucky you that you can. I can't. I raised 4 girls that are wonderful additions to society...they are good and responsible. Why so judgmental?
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
15 Sep 11
Sid... hello... if the comment doesn't reflect on you, then why are you responding to it?
I have no problem with mothers that pay for themselves. I have a problem with mothers that force me to pay for them, because they want free blaw blaw blaw....
Listen... you really don't get that the vast majority of single mothers are complete jerks, and leeches on society, do you?
When I worked at Wendy's back in high school, a lady came and applied for a job. She worked there for 3 months. She openly told us, to our face, we're all going to pay for her to sit at home. That's almost verbatim. She said very specifically she was there to work, only as long as she had to, until she could get back on welfare.
She quit almost 3 months to the very day. Exactly how long she said she had to, to get welfare.
Now, if our frustration and disdain for these types of public blood sucking ticks of society... are not you....
Then why are you here? Why are you complaining about comments not directed at you?
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
19 Sep 11
Sid... hello... if the comment doesn't reflect on you, then why are you responding to it?
What part of that statement, do you not get? Hmm?
If you are NOT forcing others to pay for your care, then the comment does not apply to you. If the comment does not apply to you, then you are making an a** out of yourself by running around attacking people that are not referencing you.
You are being ignorant, and choosing to remain so. Either grow up, or shut up. No one care what you think anymore.
@peavey (16936)
• United States
14 Sep 11
!
"When you pay for stupidity, more people become stupid." I love this and I'm going to steal it. 
Very good post. I agree with you 100%. Irresponsibility has become the most destructive mental disease in our culture. Those who prey on it are thieves and liars. @andy77e (5156)
• United States
14 Sep 11
And you can verify that with our survival rates, compared to other countries.
Survival rates INCLUDE the uninsured, yet our rate of survival from nearly every illness is HIGHER than any other country in the world today.
It's not just superhype, its outright lies.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
15 Sep 11
Hi Andy,
I feel a bit offended by this. I work full time and I'm a single mom and I don't qualify for much government help at all. I get 40.00 knocked off my rent each month because of my income. And trust me, it's still right up there and I barely get by. Do I expect the government to pay for my health care? NO..I don't expect anyone to pay for anything for me. I juggle my money and I make incense burners and sell them on the side and do the best I can. I don't go to the doctors and won't because I could not afford to even walk into the place. When my daughter gets sick, I do take her in and I make payments which makes it even harder to get by. I am NOT irresponsible just because I can't afford freakin health insurance!!! I work full time and haven't missed a day in years and years! My rent gets paid on time and I budget to make sure my bills get paid. The economy bites and I'm slowly sinking. Unlike you, I can't just go out and get another job. The hours that I work leave me little time with my daughter as it is. You really shouldn't judge people just because you are doing better financially. It doesn't make you better than anyone else and you don't know everyone's story. I actually would rather die than to take a dime from someone like you if I were in that situation. I work and I pay into the Medicaid and welfare system...don't qualify for it but I pay in. You really are way too judgemental. Not everyone fits into your close-minded little slot. Your karma is really bad and it's going to come back and bite you.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
15 Sep 11
I'm offended by people who get offended all the time.
If you are offended, maybe you should change how you live?
NO..I don't expect anyone to pay for anything for me.
So this doesn't apply to you? Then why are you offended? I'm offended by that.
I am NOT irresponsible just because I can't afford freakin health insurance!!!
The most... absolute most I have every earned in a single year, is $20K. And that is the exception. Most of the time I earn about $17K. Yet I have basic insurance. I mean really...
You realize, people who are responsible, never get offended by people who complain about irresponsible people.
Just like you don't see skinny people getting offended by fat jokes. Why? Cause they are not fat. It's the fat people who are offended... why? Because they're fat.
And listen, I simply don't buy this garbage about how you can't afford health insurance. If you really can't afford it, then you need to change jobs. Unless you live in one of those horrible socialist states, where the cost is insane.
People working at McDonald'a can afford health insurance. You can't? Explain. You must be the one woman in the whole country that can't then.
I have a friend named Nadia. She's from Somalia. She barely speaks English. She works for $8/hr at a warehouse, shuffling skids around. She said she needed insurance. I looked up an insurance policy for her, for...... $57 dollars a month. She paid it. She got insurance.
No skills. Near minimum wage. Barely speaks English. She can afford insurance.
Was it really great wonderful awe inspiring insurance? Of course not. But if she has some major illness, she's got catastrophic coverage.
Now if some little girl from Somalia who can't speak English, working for a mere $8 an hour, can get insurance, what's your excuse again?
Yeah yeah... karma whatever. You don't even know me. Funny how you can judge me, while telling me not to judge. Tell me, does your hypocrisy affect your karma much? 
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
15 Sep 11
Yeah I thought it was interesting that the audience you heard a guy yell "yeah". But Ron Paul who is a Doctor said no one is turned away for not having insurance.
My mom had a major medical emergency in which she needed a ride to the Hospital and then was put on life support and latter it was decided that she wasn't going to recover. It was a total of $3million the hospital forgave the cost. The hospitals even the one we went to has a very big incentive to give care to all people one the media out cry that happens if they didn't and also that fact that Hospitals a lot of them are in it to help people and they decide if you can't pay it what the options are that is best for both in this case because their where no assets that would come close to the total cost for the care they decided to forgive the debt for it. Hospitals are in it for the right reasons also as I saw a debate on which is better Socialized medicine and the Free Market system of health care here is a great collection of videos it is a series enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzm5jhguYJ0
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
16 Sep 11
Yeah I know. That was just interesting when the audience wouldn't let him finish. Where he said no one got turned away for not being able to pay.
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
14 Sep 11
I had a situation similar to yours, and like you I paid for the hospital treatment out of pocket when I got the bill from them. I realize it will be almost impossible to get people who have been conditioned to be dependent off of welfare, but there needs to be something developed to get the children off of it. If welfare parents were told they had to have their children in school making passing grades through high school graduation or they wouldn't get their welfare checks, maybe there wouldn't be so many drop outs and uneducated people content to live off the efforts of others. I have mixed feelings about the poor. I believe our government has conditioned them to remain poor and dependent, but it bothers me that they're content to be that way. It also irritates me when our government tries to force the haves to give to the have nots. Most of us don't object to helping those in genuine need, but helping the won'ts is too much. You're right, socialism doesn't work, and
our country has gone broke proving it.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
14 Sep 11
What really ticks me off, is people whining that health care costs too much, when it's explicitly because of socialism that it costs too much. Yet they run to the very thing that cause the problem.
"Wah! Socialism is driving up the cost of health care! We need more socialism then!"
Which is exactly what happened in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela and so on... and we see where they ended up! Of course most don't know anything, but simply want government to fix their lives.
@cow_boy29 (236)
• United States
15 Sep 11
no no no
we can let somebody die in front of although they no have insurance because it is the life, life op human, we can let them die, yeah in the world there is no free but where is your humanity let somebody die ??? asking into your heart?
@WakeUpKitty (8694)
• Netherlands
14 Sep 11
You say the answer is: personal responsibility.
That is fine with me but then governments should not force people to have an insurance. And if you have that you are also registered, you have to show your ID before they help you out in the hospital and they also make a picture of your face.
Great. Now at least you know that we all do have an insurance and those who don't haven't won't be helped! So yes they can die.
But if that is so? How come there are still sooo many people (foreigners mostly) who are helped, have very expensive operations but don't have any insurance?
How come dutch people without an insurance or not enough insurance will be refused?
How come those with insurance still pay for all those without?
So is this socialism? Or is our government just too afraid to let a foreigner die since he (and his family) can say we discriminate?
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
14 Sep 11
Well automatically, if personal responsibility is the key, then we should not have a law requiring insurance. It should be up to you.
Further, yes, helping people from other countries without insurance, is in fact socialism.
By law, hospitals must help people who show up, even if they have no ability to pay.
This is why hospitals in California, near the boarder, have closed down because to many people from Mexico used their hospital and didn't pay.
@prabesh13 (13)
•
14 Sep 11
from one side of view to die is good because it helps to maintain population ..but from next side it is not good to die people because to think negative is to loose the beheviour of true so we should save them or they should have done insurance.
