Friends and working relationships
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
United States
October 1, 2011 3:21pm CST
I hesitate to even put this on Mylot.. but writing stuff down and getting other people's takes on things sometimes helps. I had a very good friend, at least I thought he was a very good friend. He has always been good to me, but I know he has a Jeckell and Hyde personality. As long as you are doing what he wants you are pie in his mouth, but when you start thinking for yourself you are no good, dirty, low down, whatever.
The thing is the person was someone I was working with... it was his company and I worked very hard.... I managed a team and I put out something like 18 articles.. I think I had a ghostwriter write about 5 of those articles and the rest I did. I got paid 0.03 a word... that's good money...
He also offered me $25 an hour to manage the project. I thought that was really steep and I told him to just give me a flat fee. The tells me he will split it 75%/25% with me getting the larger portion since I did all the work.
Well.. we had trouble getting paid... the company didn't want to pay because there were lots of problems that they didn't talk about until later... they did a lot of changing of things after we had the articles finished... so we had to go back and do some editing... not a problem on our end.. except we wanted to get paid.
Well the company said they weren't going to pay, and the guy that owns the company I worked for started using strong arm tactics, blackmail .. to put it lightly to get our money. Needless to say, within 12 hours we had our money...
So.. now that he gets paid... he asks if I will accept 50% instead of the 75% since he had to work so hard to get us our money. I said sure.. I was happy to get 50/50 with him. I got paid a total of $801 and I also got $300 as an advance about 3 weeks into the project because I was going on vacation and needed the money... so it was a total of $1101 that I was paid.
Now that he isn't doing contract work anymore... I have decided to do some work on my own. The company that he blackmailed.... I wrote them and asked to work for them on my own. He is furious that I did that, even though I only did it out of curiosity.
Mind you, I never had a contract with the person I worked for... he asked me in emails to work with him and he gave me the amount that he was willing to pay and I accepted...
He is mad because I have enough brains to work on my own. He made a comment that from now on he will only pay me $6 to $8 an article... (he was being flippant) and I told him I get that now.. why do I need him and wait for a month or 2 or 3 to get my money.. when I can be paid a few days after I submit my articles on my own.
So now he implied that I owed him money... that he paid me a "sh!tload" of money and I left him. I had to agreement to stay with him... and when he changed the scope of the company... and started strong arming clients to get money... well... I blocked him from my chat.. I hope that also blocks him from my email... not sure if it does.. I'm on gmail.
The sad thing is... I counted him as a friend. He did have some crazy ways, but they were NEVER directed at me... but now that I am thinking for myself and making my own way.. I'm dumb as a rock. I think he is just eating sour grapes.
Okay this is probably the longest vent I have ever done. Anything you want to vent about?
6 people like this
9 responses
@hardworkinggurl (37063)
• United States
1 Oct 11
It is like I have often thought to myself that friends and business do not mix. Somehow when we do it turns into one giant mess, more aggravation then necessary and the friendship gets sour.
As much as the friendship is strong somehow when it comes to money some friends are ridiculous and think that they can treat us unfairly because of the friendship. 
As for me the only thing I want to vent, is that I can't make up my mind which cute outfit to wear tonight as I am being taken out for a very early birthday celebration by an out of town friend and then attending my boyfriends late show tonight. Two different settings but both will be fun. lol
That is all the commotion/racket happening in my brain today. 
As for me the only thing I want to vent, is that I can't make up my mind which cute outfit to wear tonight as I am being taken out for a very early birthday celebration by an out of town friend and then attending my boyfriends late show tonight. Two different settings but both will be fun. lol
That is all the commotion/racket happening in my brain today. 3 people like this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
1 Oct 11
yeah I was paid what I asked for which is far less than he thought I would ask, because I am not greedy, just not in my nature.
@hardworkinggurl (37063)
• United States
1 Oct 11
Sad when someone we really care about treats us this way selfishly. Kind of ruins it for the others unfortunately as things like this we just do not forget.
I joked above as I have had a quite and peaceful day and that is the only dilemma I have had all day. lol But I figured it out.
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
1 Oct 11
Hi HWG! First, I will say have a good time! I'm so happy for you!
Now.. yes.. friends and business can get into some really messy situations. For me, this guy was my friend and I loved him... I didn't love some of his ways... but I loved him as a friend and a brother. Now he has totally turned on me and says I owe him money... he's trying to claim damages because I somehow ruined the project... he did the same thing with a friend of mine.. said she ruined stuff and refused to pay her for her training.. I think she did get paid for some articles she wrote for him though.. but he didn't want to do that.
He made mention that another writer there didn't ask for her money... and said she thought she was doing him a favor.. yep.. i believe that like I believe the sky is green.
5 people like this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
1 Oct 11
I do see why he would feel that way about the going to the former client though.
yes he has a jekyll and hyde character and that is why I cannot work for him anymore. He is not even doing work I like. I am a writer and I love to write, I can't stand spinning.
2 people like this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
1 Oct 11
He had already given me permission before though... and he was already 'fired' for blackmailing (the client's word not mine) them ... I told him that I wasn't even serious about it.. I was just seeing what they would say.... he had said before that maybe I could land the job and get some work out of it.. so now he is a jeckell and hyde? No.. he's mad about something else. He wasn't made yesterday... he's mad today after another writer demanded her payment... I'm sure that is the crux of it.. but of course he didn't say that.
4 people like this
@stephcjh (38473)
• United States
1 Oct 11
I hate to hear that. I know exactly where you are coming from on this. It sounds to me like he just wanted the upper hand of you and his workers in the first place. He is just mad that you got everything figured out on your own. He will get over it and move on just like you did. I know you meant no harm and that is all that matters.
1 person likes this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
1 Oct 11
It's sad in a way, because I really care for him. I knew about his strong arm tactics because I saw them first hand... but I didn't know he would use them on me. Lesson learned... a big one.
4 people like this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
1 Oct 11
yep he has no respect for women,
I know it is awful now,
but in time you two may patch things up.
I long dropped the notion of considering him a friend, he was just somebody I worked for. He hurt me so deeply that there would never be a friendship between us anymore,
But with you guys things might heal in time. Of course conditions would have to be put in place. Like sticking up for yourself. He has no respect for women at all. He just wants puppets.
I am curious to know how it will work out for him and his new male writer,
this guy will not put up with abuse from him.
1 person likes this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
11 Oct 11
I appreciate what you said Winterose, but I don't see that we will EVER be friends again. Maybe he would like to be, but I don't. I don't throw my friends away, but he already threw me away with how he treated me, so he doesn't get a second chance to break my heart again.
2 people like this
@RitterSport (2451)
• Lippstadt, Germany
2 Oct 11
hi dear PQ I am happy for you that you dont have to deal with him any more. Its just rude to make people work for yourself and then not pay them and let them wait for money they earned with hard work and are entitled to have.
I am not a business person and I dont even have a paid mailer or such kind of thing but if I had this first I would make sure I got enough cash at hand to pay the people who work for me, really in time, as they made efforts to work and do their best, I would rather pay out of my personal money instead of telling them wishy washy things of I have to wait for my client to pay first before I can pay you.
Glad you could also block him from your e mail now so I hope he leaves you in peace and quiet. Hope more nice work comes your way soonest so you wont miss the money he would pay you.
1 person likes this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
3 Oct 11
Hi Ritter... he's doing his best to get the word out that I 'cheated' him... that I quit on him... I didn't quit.. I was just working on the side to get some money because his dream was no longer a paying gig. I stood up to him and refused to be bullied and he can't stand it.. so now all my friends are no good either.. he thinks we are all in cohoots together to quit on him.. I didn't quit.. he fired me.. but said I quit.. trying to rewrite what he proposed to me for managing and so forth.
I've washed my hands of him.. even if he tries to make up with me, there will be no friendship. He has this way of getting even and then trying to make nice like we all come out and play... well this little 'grunt' as he calls us is not going to be abused by him anymore... and I stood up to him big time... and that set him off even more.
He doesn't like women who think for themselves... so now I am the enemy.
4 people like this
@RitterSport (2451)
• Lippstadt, Germany
9 Oct 11
I am really irated when I hear stuff like this. Why cant we detect these black sheep sooner when we try to make an extra buck and do our best and dont take these responsibilities lightly ourselves but stick to our word????
Something similar has happened to me years ago. See I dont have a formal qualification as a translator but translated a book from English into German for a publisher in the US. He only paid me a bit in the beginning and that was it. He didnt ue my translation, I know the book is not on the German Market so he thought, obviously, he doennt have to pay me.
@RitterSport (2451)
• Lippstadt, Germany
15 Oct 11
hi dear PQ thanks for the BR and have a great weekend
@WakeUpKitty (8694)
• Netherlands
1 Oct 11
First of all: you considered this person as a friend but he is not. He is a smart and he knows how to (ab)use someone, how to make someone work for him.
Did you sign a contract where is written you are not allowed to work on your own or leave? If not, don't botter and do what you like.
He will try to blackmail you, make your life misery because he needs you. You are the ship full of money that is sailing out of his reach.
Saying he payed you a lot (which is not true since the agreement was 75% not 50%!) is a way to make you feel bad again and feel sorry for him.
My advice is to leave that ship and cut all lines with him. Go work for yourself. You don't own him anything and you know you don't. Don't make him think you do so.
Change your phonenumber, email address when needed. And don't worry.. he will find an other idiot sooner or later who wil work for him so no need to feel pity for him.
And remember: if someone is not willing to do something/the same for you, why should you?
1 person likes this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
1 Oct 11
Hi WakeUpKitty,
I agree with you. I've known this guy for a long time.. I call 5 years a long time.. but I have ghosted for him when he was working and couldn't write. He paid me about what I can get on my own. He had big dreams for his company, but he keeps throwing a monkey wrench into things.
I decided to go to work on my own, and told him that I wouldn't be as active with him... not that I was quitting. My email to him doesn't say I quit. He accused me of quitting. He had me doing all of his grunt work.. I was basically his secretary... now he has to find someone else to do it.
I think he knows he messed up but he is going to make it all my fault because "i was disloyal" and thought for myself.
5 people like this
@WakeUpKitty (8694)
• Netherlands
1 Oct 11
Hi PointlessQuestions, don't care about what he finds or says or thinks. It is not important. Do what is the best for you, that is exactly what he was and is doing! Let him find an other idiot/slave. And laugh at his face if he says you are disloyal. He doesn't know what that word means at all!
I wish you a lot of work and great income on your own.
@mydreambymy (25)
• Iraq
2 Oct 11
oh~ it is a little complex, but base my, i think that friends is friends, and business is business. I always to say that keep the friendship out money, as you situation, i think as a really friends will not have the trick to just fot little money, you really friend means to stay on you postion. so let nature take its course.
1 person likes this
@PointlessQuestions (15397)
• United States
3 Oct 11
It worked well for a long time, but I always had to ask for my money... he always paid... but I would have to ask for it and ask for it... I don't work for a hobby.. or for the fun of it... but our friendship was a good one.. I thought.. but maybe I was a bad judge of character? Not sure... There will be no more friendship with him... I love him still... it's been like I was his big sister protecting him and helping him see his dream... but no more.
3 people like this
@thinkingoutloud (6127)
• Canada
2 Oct 11
Working with and/or for friends or family is often really difficult. People will infer that the "personal relationship" overrides common business practice... especially when it suits them or is to their advantage. I think you are better off away from this man. Contacting a former client of his company to work for them on your own is widely considered to be both unethical and immoral in the business world. However! It is not illegal assuming you never signed a non-compete clause in which you agreed not to do so.
On a side note -- I'm not sure if this is the first time that you are working on your own, rather than for someone else's business, but I highly recommend you review the definition of a contract, if you are going to be negotiating projects independently. You say in your original post "I never had a contract with the person I worked for..." That may not be correct. The broad definition of a contract is "an agreement with specific terms between two or more persons or entities in which there is a promise to do something in return for a valuable benefit known as consideration." Your emails could be viewed as a contract. He offered you work and stated that payment (or "consideration") for that work - and you, in return, accepted. If there was no statement that your emails were for discussion and negotiation purposes only, leading up to a signed formal/paper contract, your emails may have formed a contract on their own. It sounds, though, like he offered for you to work on that one specific project and that is now complete, with work submitted and payment received, so it would appear you have met your obligation in full, if no other terms were discussed. Again, just a suggestion 
People don't always realize that email or electronic communications can be binding and may inadvertently enter into a contract that way.
I wish you much success in your new work! 
People don't always realize that email or electronic communications can be binding and may inadvertently enter into a contract that way.
I wish you much success in your new work! 
@dawnald (85146)
• Shingle Springs, California
28 Oct 11
It's always a shock when it ends up being directed at you. I have a friend at work who has quite the temper, usually it's been directed at other people, but once in a while I get to see some of it too. Not a comfortable feeling.
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
3 Oct 11
He sounds like a class a jerk. I hope u want do anymore buisness w/him. Pretty tacky that he renigged on your percentage. Believe i'd leave that man alone. no, i have no vents at the moment, lol.
