Does it really matter who governs?

Australia
October 28, 2011 8:45pm CST
It seems to me that there is no substantive difference between the two standard sides of politics. The politicians who actually reach senior level are basically of a type, either hard-line ideologues or obsessive pragmatists, ruthless in their rise to power, and it's a hard choice as to which is worse. The problem with ideologues is inflexibility. We all have a basic ideology, but most healthy people are able to recognise when it is time to compromise, but not the ideologue, whose identity perhaps is intimately tied up with his ideology and cannot accept challenges to its validity. When ideologues dominate a parliament, they spend a large part of the time and energy which should go into governance on instead sabotaging and white-anting the opposing side's policies. Nothing productive gets done because in this polarised political world we live in, hostile houses of parliament and/or independent parties like the Greens force compromise or completely block legislation. The pragmatists are possibly worse. They do tend to get things done, but unfortunatley, in this Hyper-Capitalist world, pragmatitism almost invariably translates as "bottom-line", and since bottom-line policies also almost invariably benefit only the top end of town, the bulk of the population the government is supposed to be governing suffers the economic results. Not voting, assuming you have that option (we don't in Australia, it's compulsory to vote in all state and federal elections) is pointless too, because that way you end up living with the truism that you get the government you deserve. But as things stand, whichever way you vote, large numbers of you will be disadvantaged, even if it is different groups depending on who mounts the better campaign (the most money, usually) this time. This view of political process is becoming increasingly prevalent, at least in the West, and is behind a lot of the people involved in OWS type protests. Yes, there are ratbags and fools involved, but the same could be said of the Tea Party or any other political movement, it goes with the territory. But talking to people involved in Australia's version of this, most are like me, middle-class swinging (issue-based) voters who have become totally disenchanted with political bipartisanship and the greed and, let's face it, the cynicism of big business leaders who blithely alter the face of local employment by relocating off-shore bringing thousands of people into unemployment, and then rewarding themselves with obscene golden handshakes. Non-violent civil disobedience seems to me to be the only valid alternative, since the system is so loaded against new parties that a third voice in politics is rarely heard and even more rarely understood, given the Establishment bias of most major media. If we don't collectively wake up to ourselves politically, I suspect it is doubtful that Capitalism as we know it will outlast Communism by much more than a few decades. I wonder what will replace it? Lash
2 people like this
6 responses
@Mashnn (4501)
29 Oct 11
I think in any country, voters education is very important. Some people just votes not really knowing what they are involving themselves into. Voters education can enlighten such people and make them more aware of different to governing out there. Without that, we will always be deceived.
1 person likes this
• Australia
29 Oct 11
Most people are politically apathetic, and only pay any attention when their hip pocket nerve is touched. No amount of education helps if the fools won't take it on board. Besides, education, like the media, is controlled by the government, and what is taught in that system supports the status quo and discourages genuine debate. In Western democracies, most elections are decided by a swinging vote pool of maybe 15% of the voters, the only ones who actually try to learn about and understand the issues involved. Lash
1 person likes this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
29 Oct 11
Fair enough. The system differs for us here in South Australia though, regarding your generalization of "it's compulsory to vote in all state and federal elections". It is not compulsory to register (though it is pushed quite hard here to do so), but once you are registered, it is compulsory to vote in every election. Strange as it sounds, it feels a bit more democratic to us, though we still get just as higher voter turnout as every other state at state elections. Mike Rann did a heck of a lot of good down here, but he's retired now with some other bloke in his place no one voted for. If an election were held today, the state government would get back in because our opposition is lousy. As I see it, we have a couple of very clever parties & leaders out there at the moment. Too clever. The government who should not have won the last election (less 618,000 votes cf the coalition & the two government-siding independents electorates voted 92% & 96% against a labor government), still has a lot of support & people who voted for them would do so again because they're starting to feel well-represented & the oppostion is working very hard at doing exactly what the people who voted for them want it to do - & are also feeling very well represented. The end result? Nothing of any value gets done. OK - so now we have a Carbon Tax, but all that does is make us the laughing stock of the Western World. We've had no positive economic reforms of any value out of this government & they've only suceeded, to their detriment, in reversing most of the positive economic reforms of the Howard Government. I see a lot of difference in which party governs. I value de-centralization & self-sufficiency & can see that this country needs it if it is to survive. Centralized government has never been nearly as effective here as it has been overseas. Unions do absolutely nothing to represent me or support me against my employer. Howard's IR laws came much, much closer to this ideal. So what's the solution? I think we should "de-party" political issues & vote on each & every issue individually. Not via referendum (too costly), but even now we have the internet capability to e-vote each issue online in large enough numbers to solve every issue directly. If it's one thing I agree with Bob Katter on, it's that representatives are too unrepresentative & unaccountable these days.
• Australia
30 Oct 11
Well, having already mentioned my tendency to support the Greens it will hardly be surprising that I see things somwhat differently to you. However, I do agree with decentralisation, if not for quite the same reasons but because that approaches the bioregional concept that I see as having quite a lot of sense. The referendum/e-vote question, however, I disagree with. Oddly enough, I used to think that would be the ideal, but an extra 30 years of observation and experience tells me that nothing would ever change - or rather, very rarely. The bulk of people, as has been noted for decades in political studies, are basically conservative and resist change, ferociously in some cases. The dreadful record of referendum failures in Australia alone shows that. Perhaps an E-vote could be used as a guideline for the Government, but please, not as a binding decision. Lash
• Adelaide, Australia
30 Oct 11
Thank you for your support. Sorry for your situation in Canada. When yes means no, something just has to be wrong there somewhere! I remember seeing an "online senate" box on our ballot paper for the senate maybe two elections ago. I wonder how popular that idea was? I liked your closing remark that voting on individual issues should help clear up the air a bit. I likened it to voting for or against a carbon tax which - either way - should help clear up the air a bit!
• Canada
29 Oct 11
I like your idea of voting on every issue individually. It might just do the trick. Here in BC, Canada, we recently had a referendum and were able to get rid of the HST. It worked, but only in a sort of way. This is where politicians play tricks with the populace. To begin with, every ruse was tried to confuse voters as to the way to vote in this referendum, to the extent that you had to vote "Yes" to mean "No" to the tax. And then, having got rid of the tax, it turns out that the government had already spent money to implement the tax. This money will of course be paid by the taxpayers. So, it was a short term win for a long term loss. The politicians will get what they want, in whichever manner suits them. But I still agree with you, that voting on individual issues should help clear up the air a bit.
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
29 Oct 11
Yes it matters to me. I know that my vote does not count because I have always lived in seats that are safe coversative seats and I am NOT a conservative voter. However, my vote for the upper house does count and I take it very seriously. I am proud to be one of the people who voted in the greed senators in the upper house and gave them the balance of power so they can put a halt to too much damage by the government whichever that may be. I do not like either political extremes of capitalism or communism and I hope that one day we find a more rational, people caring society but I doubt it will happen in my life time. Still it is possible that the pragmatists may manage to destroy our world before we can save it. A worry really.
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
29 Oct 11
Ooops, yes I did mean green. Before I understood the power of our upper house I thought it was a waste of money but having seen it in action blocking legislation that I thought was appalling I have become a fan. This system gives us a real chance to put minor parties into a position of power that they will never gain in the lower house. Well they might if the whole country changed. I find it interesting that no matter who the people vote into power they often vote enough independents into the upper house to make a difference so that no government can have a free ride to the next election. It seems to be a good system, although I am concerned that all our major parties are going increasinly to the right wing side of politics.
@Kenorv (343)
• United States
31 Oct 11
Lash, you've hit the nail on the head and I think it's a big reason as to why George Washington opposed political parties. He had the foresight to see how big of a problem political parties and their ideologies would become and unfortunately he was pretty much alone. I don't know if eliminating political parties would fix things but I do know that it would be a great start. The problem is that there are too many brainwashed voters on both sides that are just as bad with their ideologies as most politicians are. That's what needs to change. The voters need to wake up and realize that political ideology is what's killing this country and kick out all of the dems and pubs and start voting in true independents that will actually govern based on what's best for the country given current circumstances and not based on some kind of ideology. Until that happens then this country will continue to decline.
• United States
29 Oct 11
I don't know much about Australian politics, but here in the U.S.? The end of all bans on LGBTs serving in the military. The appointment of Justice Sotomayor Baby steps towards universal health care. None of those things would even be possible, let alone accomplished, if we had President McCain instead of President Obama. Yes, there are substantive differences between the two standard sides in our politics. Yes, it matters who's President. Having the right person as President isn't sufficient, but it is necessary.
• United States
29 Oct 11
I'd say the odds are poor. Republicants have wanted to do away with Medicare, Social Security, legal abortion, and bans on discrimination and despite being in power a whole lot during the last 50 years they've failed. We move forward more than we move back, but wo's in matters a great deal to whether we move forward.
@francesca5 (1344)
30 Oct 11
hello grandpa lash, this seems to me like a very good analysis of the problems most democracies are facing, your description certainly resembles the problems of the UK, we have either pragmatists who will do anything for power, and ideologues who are so caught up in their own agenda that they offer no alternative that doesn't involve that solution, regardless of whether it works or not. the problem, at the moment, i feel, is that there are many people who are unhappy, but though we agree that we don't like the current situation, we are not agreed on what to replace it with. my interest tends to be in economics, so i tend to look at things from that perspective, and so the big issue for me is income inequality, as i don't believe an economy can work properly unless there is sufficient money in the hands of the ordinary person, but then after that the solution gets complicated. but as you say, you are looking at the problem through the eyes of someone who is concerned about green issues, and there are other people who see other problems, and so we don't agree on the solution. but i think the current system will change, and the internet is making a difference, i think, but i don't know how yet either.
• Australia
30 Oct 11
Actually I am looking at it from a more comprehensive perspective which definitely includes income inequality. As for the Greens, they do tend to be looking in the same places I am. I'll come back to this a bit later, my dinner is served lol. Lash
• Australia
30 Oct 11
I did a very late Uni gig, finished about 3 years ago, and did my PhD thesis in more or less economic anthopology, or anthropology in contexts with major economic overtones, so it would be very easy to get off on a sidetrack here. I'll try to resist lol. Your situation there is a lot more volatile than here, with the racial/religious tensions and the riots, so you are getting a much closer look at what might happen. With the inequality it sounds like a bit of a powder keg, and makes sense of some British Sci Fi I've read lately (well, really Scottish). The OWS phenomena might be a possible safety valve, and might even have some effect, if it continues to grow. Lash
• Australia
30 Oct 11
Not together tonight, I forgot the actual point of my own discussion, which is what might replace Capitalism. And I don't know. If the passing is violent, then I fear totalitarianism will raise its ugly head. But we are a marketing species, I think, in some manner or other, so whatever comes next will still have to deal with the profit motive. Daly's Steady State economics theories are interesting as a possible alternative. Lash