Does Religion create a We and They????

When you say I won't get it all to bend to my will, what do you think my will is? What is it I am not able to see? For someone who doesn't hate, you sure do make a lot of derogatory remarks about religion. How can you be speaking the truth about religion when you know nothing about it? I believe your goal is to cause trouble, because I believe your god is Satan. I know, you don't believe in Satan. Your beliefs have nothing to do with what is. My goal is to bring those outside of Christ to a knowledge of his saving grace. What is this education you think is God's goal? What do you think he's trying to teach us? What is the purpose for it? If your goal is God's goal, why do you refuse to teach since you think you have most of the answers? Don't waste your time typing that stupid answer you always give, "I won't serve it up on a plate. You must discover for yourself." What you're really saying with that response is you have nothing to teach because there is nothing. "Do I intimidate you with my intelligence??" I don't know. I've yet to see it. "Is your EGO bruised??" Since what you say amounts to nothing, how could my ego be bruised? I am continuously learning from God's wisdom. Why don't you put away your fears and do the same?

Why did you not answer the question, "What is it I am not able to see?" Are you unable to be specific? "You are not able to see anything but your religion," is too general. Tell me specifically what it is I can't see, if you are able. Why do you think your discussions are not based on you beliefs? That is exactly what they are, and you are not able to prove otherwise. Saying that you are not telling anyone what to believe is a lie. Satan does lose in the end. If you knew the word of God, you'd know that. Satan's desire is to take as many from God as he can get because he hates God, God's Son Jesus the Christ, God's Holy Spirit, and all of God's creation. If you knew God's holy word, you'd know that. I know what my God is teaching. He has spelled it out plainly in His Holy Book. I want to know what you think He is teaching. As usual, you refuse to answer my question but instead tell me there is a lesson I'm not aware of and it's something I badly need to address. Why didn't you tell me what that lesson is, because you don't know yourself? Do you not know how to teach it or is it all a bunch of hooey? If I were intimidated by your intelligence, I would be too afraid to challenge you; but challenge you I do. You have shown no intelligence and say nothing that could fill anyone with fear. As far as my bruised ego goes, why do you accuse me of your own actions? You have lashed out at me more than I have at you. All I have to do is correct you and you go into a tirade. I know you are not learning from God because of some of the discussions you've started and the comments you've made. Again, if I were scared, I wouldn't be challenging you. If "wisdom is attained in the struggle to acquire knowledge," why do you refuse to acquire it? Why are you afraid to study God's Holy Word, the Bible? Aren't you the one who's really afraid? The difference between you and me is that I'm not afraid to ask you about your beliefs, but you are afraid to learn about mine. You're never going to achieve that" higher intelligence" if you are afraid and refuse to learn. "If you think that is your holy book, perhaps you need to read it again, willing to see what is, rather than what you want it to be." Why don't you take your own advise. I know you won't because you're afraid. As I said, "For someone who doesn't hate, you sure do make a lot of derogatory remarks about religion." If unconditional love brings the truth out regardless of the drama, that just proves you don't have unconditional love. Truth does teach what the right selections are. That's why you refuse to study God's Bible. You don't want to know what is right.

bestboy19, your quote: When you say I won't get it all to bend to my will, what do you think my will is? What is it I am not able to see? Your will is to have everything conform to your religion. You are not able to see anything but your religion. Your quote: I believe your goal is to cause trouble, because I believe your god is Satan. I know, you don't believe in Satan. Your beliefs have nothing to do with what is. Seems you value beliefs way too much. See how many times you say beliefs. You focus on your beliefs then my beliefs. You don't realize that I'm not telling you what I believe. Satan does not exist. If satan did exist, he would always lose in the end. If this were the case, even satan would learn. Do you really need to ask what education is and why God would be teaching it??? Ask any parent why they teach their children. Your quote: why do you refuse to teach since you think you have most of the answers? Don't waste your time typing that stupid answer you always give, "I won't serve it up on a plate. You must discover for yourself." What you're really saying with that response is you have nothing to teach because there is nothing. Perhaps there is a lesson I am teaching that you are not aware of. Yes, it is something that you badly need to address. It would open your eyes to so very much. Your quote: "Do I intimidate you with my intelligence??" I don't know. I've yet to see it. With your defense answer, I must assume yes. Your quote: Is your EGO bruised??" Since what you say amounts to nothing, how could my ego be bruised? Once again, you return a defensive answer because you have admitted your anger to me several times. Clearly something is being bruised. Your quote: I am continuously learning from God's wisdom. Why don't you put away your fears and do the same? Why would you think I am not learning from God?? Clearly I have learned enough to scare you. Sometimes, I feel I am not learning fast enough. Just as I have told you, God allows me to realize that there are no short cuts. Wisdom is attained in the struggle to acquire knowledge and not by the mere gift of it. God works on multiple levels with multiple views. Often when I see this in practice, I can only say WOW! I have no fears. My progress is always toward more knowledge and higher intellect. If you think that is your holy book, perhaps you need to read it again, willing to see what is, rather than what you want it to be. Finally your quote: For someone who doesn't hate, you sure do make a lot of derogatory remarks about religion Wouldn't hate really be to ignore the truth and allow others to live on beliefs which are not true. Unconditional Love brings the truth out regardless of the drama. Look around you. That is what God is doing in this world EVERYDAY. With the dance of people's choices, truth will return to teach what the right selections are. Being stubborn only makes your journey longer. I'm not worried. We do have eternity to learn. All the kids are coming home in time.

First off, the Bible is the source of information that is accurate, as far as I am concerned. It does not say that we are all children of God, but rather creations of God. It is "relationship" not religion, that God calls us into. It is not necessary to tell anyone that they are wrong or are going to hell, etc. But it is necessary to live a life that exemplifies the love, grace and forgiveness that Christ lived out. This cannot be done without the very presence of God (through Christ) being invited into our life to do so. It is then that the Holy Spirit begins to deal with our pride, stubborn and agrumentitive attitudes towards others, and just "being" what we to be: representatives of His Kingdom upon the earth. Be sure that when God comes into your life your will - your beliefs - your attitudes will all be confronted, if they are not pleasing to God. But He is loving and patient and will work with our spiritual walk to improve it, aometimes with some painful lessons along the way. So yes there is a division within the religious community, and it will always be, because people are always going to question God's word, and the way He perscribed for us to live. There is a definite division between darkness and light, and those who follow either of them. It makes no one better or worse - - just making decisions as to what they see as the way they want to go. It's great to have that freedom of choice. Nuff said.

Mongolian4ever. Indeed mankind is advancing. With more knowledge comes more ideas and better ways of thinking. Singularity will be great, however the change in people will come through their education and their free choice. This should be done without Control but through free choice/ This will allow diversity of mankind to open the view much greater. God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. Technology is going to be wonderous ,however it will always lack vision. Classycat, Yes, you are right. God is about a Relationship and not about religion. It makes me wonder why so many search for God only in a holy book. I would think discovery of the Real Thing would be better. Mankind is the real author of all holy books. I think you are wrong about divisions in religions and people. It's not like light and darkness for people are making a Choice to be divided.

While I am not religious I do agree with you on what the ideals of a religion are supposed to be. As you said a relationship is the key. Not a religion. I may not believe in God, but I do understand that love is the most powerful force in the universe. And the Christian faith has that as its ideal, and I can truly respect that. And everyone will live a fulfilling life if they claim responsibility for their actions and demonstrate love for your neighbor. I don't try to exemplify this in my life because of God or a religion but rather because no matter if there's an afterlife or not does not matter to me, I want the last thing to know before my eyes shut forever that I lived a life to its fullest potential, and showed my love for my life to other people and encourage them on the right path too. While we may not believe the same things, we fundamentally strive for the same ideals and we should all try to maintain that throughout our lives. Religious or not, we /all/ will die. That is currently an inevitability, so don't waste your time here. The way I go through life is remembering there are /always/ pros and cons to every decision in life you make. And everything in this universe has its flaws. Humans, the earth, everything has its flaws. But these flaws are intrinsically built into the universe. Science can prove that. Religion proclaims it as well. It's how we address those flaws. Keep an open mind and the universe can reveal many of its mysteries to you for simply allowing your mind to accept all kinds of possibilities. And we can all slowly bridge those gaps of religion. And maybe one day even between science and religion on a fundamental level. Peace and love to everyone.

Of course everyone is special to God.. even the "least of all". Humbly acknowledging that we are all less than God is not insulting or promoting a low self esteem. It is simply believe in Christ and BELIEVING Christ. It means we are willing to show our faith instead of our pride.

My mistake. I thought when you said least of all, you were talking about people not God.

You should never say you are the Least of all. Do you know why???? Someone might believe that and you would be teaching the wrong lesson. You are as special to God as Everyone. Yes, I do remember from the bible the stories of Jesus treating the lowliest of people as equal. Seems many people choose to value their own importance over everything else. Their choices show God and the world just what lessons are needed. Perhaps, those in a church or religion should be pointing others in the right direction. That could only help religion today.

It would be interesting to go back in time and see it happen. Mankind's greatest problem was probably the cause. Mankind's greatest problem is that everybody wants to rule the world. Given enough time, mankind should outgrow this. There does seem to be a long way to go.

You are right. Using mankind as a label is not accurate. There will always be people who Understand and help to shine a light in those who do not see. In this multilevel classroom, we all have different lessons to learn and we all can help supply answers for others. Perhaps if people would learn to stand on their own two feet instead of following, we could discover real peace quicker. How can a country go to war if no one chooses to fight. Let's just get a new leader.

Atheism, a religion???? I do agree with you on that one. We all have the power to choose what we deem important in this world. Funny how so many people value our disagreements more. Religion's understanding of God would really advance if they came together and compared what they do agree on. Of course,with the arguments and drama comes the learning. It does change everyone even ever so slowly. The only real comment I can make about your statement about law is:: Hmm??? You must be a lawyer.

OK. Yes. I see it now. Thanks!

No, I am not a lawyer. What I meant, though was law compares well to this subject because it to divides people. There is a right, wrong, guilty, not guilty outlook and there is a lot of disputing and decision making over law. You have organization from the lowly criminal groups (including the criminal fans of Johnny Cash - joking ) to the upper high class, the ruling judges, so definitely a class structure. It does provide or should demonstrate a high moral standard with clear divisions. In practice, though the methods employed are not one of complete agreements but one in constant change as new laws get made and old laws applied. The lawyer spends years in study with law theory and becomes a graduate of a bar exam until they actually make law when they go into practice as lawyers. “so this is what a court room looks like” – from the movie a few good men

ehleonkyrietales. Your quote: The teachers gives respect to each other, how are lowlife church leaders pretend and actually feeds negatives thoughts to their follower, leading the world cannot be given to someone whose hands are not capable, but still - who are we to know Yes, that is something to think about. It would be so nice to have the right leaders. On the other hand, much is learned from all the screw ups. We must understand it all if we are to know the right answers are right. Creating heaven will take many trips to hell to discover heaven is the only answer. BlueDoll, I really loved the way you see building your church on love, friendship, trust, brotherhood and goodwill. Whether people see it or not, you are pointing in the right direction, Unconditional Love.

I like the words Jesus Christ said to Simon Peter his best friend on earth who followed him from place to place. "Upon you I will build my church." well maybe the scriptures said, "on this rock, I will ... " I am reciting by memory and will stand to be corrected. For me it means, Jesus will come to build on this, what we call friendship, love, trust, brotherhood, goodwill. But others might disagree with this and certainly this is everyone's choice. Who could disagree on the concept though? Sadly, some will I suppose. As far as religions interact, many do not agree with what the other is saying about the bible, some reject Christ in it, others do not believe he is real and still others choose to mock him (maybe not much has changed in 2000 years). In any event, I agree that often, it becomes about who is right, not the message and unity gets lost with it. May there be peace in the world.

Our faiths became the drive of PRIDE and not humility anymore. You know, great teachers from different religions said "if all christians are like Jesus himself, then the world will be very different from what it is now." (reciting also by memory, but I'm sure Ghandi said those word. The teachers gives respect to each other, how are lowlife church leaders pretend and actually feeds negatives thoughts to their follower, leading the world cannot be given to someone whose hands are not capable, but still - who are we to know!

AS mankind advances in knowledge, they will come to question religion more and more. There will come a day when religion will have to learn, grow and change or become obsolete. The idea of religion being mankind's attempt to understand God is a good one, however using the greed and need to control that mankind uses, gives religion a bad name until they learn to outgrow such evil. Many will be hurt til then. The reality will be that Science will discover God before religion will simply because they don't rely on beliefs and they willingly change when they discover they are wrong. This is the road to true knowledge and God.

Hmmm??? You mean not only do I have to be right but you have to be wrong as well. Yes.Yes. That brings us back to mankind's age old problem, EVERYBODY WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD!! They don't see the great advancement the world would experience if everyone had the freedom to express that which is special about themselves. You know. If one rules the other guy, one will never discover that the other guy really had the better idea. If only so many weren't blind to this, this would be a much different world. I guess mankind will outgrow this in time. Yes, you are right. Mankind likes divisions in many things. Politics is another big one. Sometimes it reminds me of four year olds fighting.

I couldn't have said it better. Thanks!

Yes, I think you are right. We and THey are being taught not only by religion but by parents, schools,society, friends,and neighbors. We all need to stop doing this. Who knows. It might even prevent a few wars if we do.

Religions are supposed to speak for God. God doesn't resort to guilt, threats or classing people as better than others. It's sad to think religion values the organization over God and what God is really about. We all really one big happy Family. Well, SHOULD BE!!!

Interesting. Wouldn't selfishness be what brings it down to I?? There are wonderful selfless people in the world teaching many through their actions. Creating a We and They still comes down to a Choice we are making. Is it really the choice we want to make knowing someone will be hurt??? Should religion be encouraging WE and They??

No doubt there is much learning needed for many. In time things that seem impossible will become possible. This happens given enough learning and knowledge. You might have been taught that most people won't see heaven, however we will all know God's Unconditional Love that heals all hurt. You are still a Child of God. It has never ever been about punishment.

I think real religion should encourage " You " more than we and they .Like helping someone in need ,always be kind with him and love everyone like you love yourself ( unfortunately that thing is not possible for the majority of people that`s why we won`t go to heaven ) Even if people are manipulated to believe in we and they in the end it`s about a single person and his need for more power.(or a small group of people ,they are the real WE )

I guess much could be human nature or is religion and society teaching this stuff to people?? In any event, it will take a long time for enough people to see then teach their children to change the world for the better.