Is the Devil smarter than God????

So then, how do you know that the devil doesn't exist? If God exists and we have free will then is it not possible that one of his creations can rebel against him?

Don't you understand, 1hopefulman?? It doesn't matter if you rebel against God or not. God will fix you in time through lessons. God is beyond the petty things of mankind like being hurt when someone doesn't agree with you. That is only a hurt EGO. You have no clue as to the scope of God's Intelligence. Religion and religious stories think like Mankind. You must at some point look beyond all those petty things mankind holds so dear and see what really counts.

The stories that religions spread do exist. Shouldn't people see them for what they are?? Are we after truth or mere beliefs? If we are after truth, this discussion should not bother you simply because it shows how stories do not add up. We should all search for truth in the right direction.

Scapegoat is the right description for the devil. These are the games of mankind. OK my atheist friend,let's use a bit of reason. If God exists, then God can be found. Do you search or have you just assumed God does not exist?? Perhaps a thorough search is in order. Where to search? Where to search?? That is the big question. In a causal universe, results from actions can not be hidden. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. Can you see??? How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how?? Your task is ahead of you. Are you up for the challenge?? There is intelligence far exceeding mankind. WE are but mere ants.

God is actually Someone. God is not what religion tells people. You would like God. Believing has never been important to God so being an atheist is no crime. Some people hunger enough for the truth to search for God. Sometimes people who search find what they search for. Like most things in life, it's all a test of intelligence.

If there is a God in the world ,it is none other than objective truth which knows no bounds.

You don't understand what this world is really all about. The story of Adam and Eve is just another story religion serves up just as they do with the devil. If you really understood, you would see that this world is a MASTERPIECE!! Look around you again. God hides nothing. It does all add up.

Remember that suffering and evil will eventually come to an end. If we read the Bible and compare what it has to say and look at the state of the world we can see that God will soon intervene and change things for the better. Then, evil will never again be allowed to go as far as it has gone, since Adam and Eve followed the Devil instead of God. 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 King James Version (KJV) 17For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS) 15-18 We wish you could see how all this is working out for your benefit, and how the more grace God gives, the more thanksgiving will redound to his glory. This is the reason why we never collapse. The outward man does indeed suffer wear and tear, but every day the inward man receives fresh strength. These little troubles (which are really so transitory) are winning for us a permanent, glorious and solid reward out of all proportion to our pain. For we are looking all the time not at the visible things but at the invisible. The visible things are transitory: it is the invisible things that are really permanent.

Given that the story of adam and eve may exist in some way, i sometimes think that way too hotsummer. But if i think it over, God likes to test his children. He wants to give his children the chance to prove themselves to him. He can't just take them in that easily, because it wouldn't mean that much if they are truly good because they never knew of evil in the first place. This is the way i understood the story, though at times, it makes me feel annoyed a little...

smiling jack: Anyone with half a brain knows bird has nothing of any significance to offer. He doesn't seem to realize that "because I say so" is not enough. If he really had anything of value, he wouldn't be keeping it to himself. He's too vain for that. Bluedoll: Read the book of Revelation. bird: If you're trying "to place truth in the world," shouldn't you be able to back it up with evidence? You have made particular claims regarding the Bible and since you are the accuser, it's your responsibility to prove your case. Remember, the accused is innocent until proven guilty. I'm not offended that you have particular beliefs. You're entitled to believe what you please. I'm offended that you make blanket statements against the Bible and the God of the Bible without backing up your claims with evidence. It does sadden me that you have rejected the true God. Isn't your "add up" nothing more than your FEELINGS? Aren't you offended that the God of the Bible has particular commands which He expects us to obey? Don't you want all of us to goosestep in line with your beliefs? Isn't that the real reason you try to get us to not care if we break His commands? You don't want to be obedient to God so you've invented a new god that fits your FEELINGS, and you want us to fall right in line with your thinking. There's a sense of power in getting others to follow, isn't there? Yes, God wants us to love one another, but what kind of love encourages disobedience, particularly when disobedience means punishment? How dare God follow through with His warnings. Regarding your problem with the "fiery pit," you asked, "Wouldn't a Loving God do whatever it takes to keep you from frying in a fiery pit...?" Of course He would, and that's why His Son, Jesus Christ, came into our world. I'm sorry, but for someone who claims to know the Bible, you seem woefully ignorant. If the sacrifice Jesus Christ made on our behalf is not good enough for some people, just because God loves these people doesn't mean they'll follow Him to heaven. There are some people whose hatred of God is stronger than His love for them, and God is not going to force them into anything.

Your quote: Regarding your problem with the "fiery pit," you asked, "Wouldn't a Loving God do whatever it takes to keep you from frying in a fiery pit...?" Of course He would, and that's why His Son, Jesus Christ, came into our world. I'm sorry, but for someone who claims to know the Bible, you seem woefully ignorant. If souls are still being taken by the devil then clearly God isn't doing enough. How can the devil have better convincing capabilities than God?? 6precious102. It's not adding up. Seems your god is coming out less than perfect. Maybe it's just mankind's stories don't always add up. Your quote: Aren't you offended that the God of the Bible has particular commands which He expects us to obey? Don't you want all of us to goosestep in line with your beliefs? Isn't that the real reason you try to get us to not care if we break His commands? You don't want to be obedient to God so you've invented a new god that fits your FEELINGS, and you want us to fall right in line with your thinking. There's a sense of power in getting others to follow, isn't there Religion has convinced you people should follow. I want you to stand on your own two feet. That's why I only give enough information so that those who really seek truth have a direction. God is very very smart. Much smarter than you realize. I know you won't understand this next statement, however some will. God doesn't have to make Commands!!! God has a much better way!! Mankind is the one trying to rule. As for me being offended, the more one understands; the less bothered one is about some things. There are a million lessons to learn around religion. Few are about God. I place truth out there, however just like God, I leave it up to people to choose what they do with that truth. I don't make demands. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan! On the other hand, truth must be out there for those who are ready can understand. Your quote: Yes, God wants us to love one another, but what kind of love encourages disobedience, particularly when disobedience means punishment? How dare God follow through with His warnings The only thing God encourages is freedom of choice. It has never ever been about punishment. Mankind has taught you this. It is about Education!!! Finally, God isn't sending people threats and warnings. This is mankind! God has fixed it all ahead of time. We are all eternal. It is up to each of us to learn and grow. We must learn to see things as they really are rather than the way others or ourselves want it to be. How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how?? Discovery of the truth often takes much work to see what actually is. Lots of unconditional love and kindness for everyone personally from myself especially for those who feel hurt when long time beliefs suddenly do not add up.

6precious102 Your quote: I understand that your goal is to get people to reject the God of the Bible. My goal is to place truth in the world. What people choose to do with that truth is up to them. I'm sure I step on many more toes than the bible. Still truth will always add up regardless of FEELINGS. Clearly, there are stories in the bible and many other holy books that do not add up. I will point to the truth. I will give my love and kindness simply because that is what God wants for all His children. Speaking of love and loving. Wouldn't a Loving God do whatever it takes to keep you from frying in a fiery pit or even from being discarded as Bluedoll suggests. Does God with His talents really need to trick and manipulate to get you to follow Him?? I think not. Perhaps something as simple as the truth along with merely looking into the eyes of God would guaranty everyone will follow. A feeling of total unconditional love could never be rejected. The games that religion teaches are not what is going on in this world. People can choose to play such games, however there are lessons to learn until people grow wise enough to see the real truth. They no longer need to follow. Discovery is for everyone. We are all meant to THINK AND REASON rather than accept and follow. Still, I am happy with everyone choosing freely. That is part of the great learning that is part of this world. God's system for His children and the world is amazing. I wouldn't change a thing. Lots of Love and Kindness Everyone.

The reality is, devil or no devil, there are many souls not going with god. It sounds as though you're suggesting god isn't any smarter than MANKIND. If a perfect being is able to come up with just the right thing to say to get you to do anything, then your god must be lacking. If your god isn't perfect and not any smarter than MANKIND, maybe it's because he doesn't add up.

The real God isn't lacking. All God's children will go with God in time. If you think God isn't smarter than mankind, you don't know God. From the little that I have said, you have trouble understanding me. I'm easy. We are ants. God works on multiple levels with multiple views. When God speaks, you better have all your cylinders running, even then it takes time to figure out much of what is being said. A single drop can fill our minds to the limit. We must be open with a wide view for everything will be missed with a closed mind. We must all work on that. Everything about God DOES ADD UP!! When you find it doesn't, that's the time to really question everything.

What I am saying is that based on all those religious stories,their god is a bit lacking in many departments. Yes, even with free choice surely God could come up with something better than the devil to convince you of the right direction to go. In that case, if souls are going with the devil, one must ask the question: is the devil smarter than God? Reality is a much different thing. If one ignores all those religious stories in search of the real truth. one can discover that the devil does not exist and that God is far from lacking. Understanding comes much easier when one releases those things mankind values so much like pride, the need to rule and control, hate, and the need to be important. A wide view and an open mind will always provide more knowledge. Indeed, life is a learning experience. One should question everything. God will always add up. If it doesn't, mankind likely has a hand in it.

Okay, I had to add... When it comes to religion, no one can really tell who is right and who is wrong. I think we are all making a fool of ourselves trying to prove the other one wrong and proving ourselves right. I bet, if the God and devil exist, they are probably laughing about this. And we tend to take the words from the books(that people refer to in each religion) we read too literally. We are prone to misinterpretations. As I have said, religion is a touching matter to talk about because there isn't anyone who can provide the one and only correct answer, because no one truly knows. We can try to understand, that's for sure, but it's no guarantee that we can grasp God's way of thinking. You may convinced that you have understood enough, but that is entirely based on your own judgment. So you can't tell people you know God better than anyone.

oh, and one more thing, sorry, The devil may appear smarter because the devil doesn't resort to underhanded ways to lure people in to doing something evil, while God doesn't. God puts faith in a person and maybe that's why he thinks he shouldn't intervene, he will only do so when a person has proven his worth to him.

I mean the devil resorts to underhanded etc... typo. this is my last post. Sorry again. sigh

It sounds like just a matter of fun and games. Is God playing games?? No, it's just mankind. It isn't reality.

The devil does not really exist. People create the devil just to have someone to blame

You are so right that people see things as they want them to be rather than what is. This prevents them from learning so very much. People do link all kinds of things to God in an attempt to control others. It's mankind's age old problem : Everybody wants to rule the world. It's sad people do not realize the real strength is when people are free to express that which is special about themselves with the world. When the picture of all people is seen, more ideas and truth will rise to the top rather than the controlled view of a few. Yes,we might see it as an insult to God, however we must remember that God is above such petty things as being insulted. It's really useless energy spent supporting the Ego which accomplishes nothing. God sees His children do not really Understand and will just send lessons. The need people have to rule and control comes from their lack of knowledge and understanding. With enough lessons we all will see there is a much better way. OK, Vandy.

Starsailover,sometimes to expose the truth, one must step on a few beliefs. I realize that this sometimes will hurt people with strong beliefs, however it is important that truth be in the world regardless of whether someone chooses to listen or not. It must be out there to see. Sure, the devil can tempt you, but couldn't God also tempt you back as well?? You are just as free to choose whether tempted toward goodness or evil. Surely God should have more talent than the devil. I understand your thinking that God should only want goodness around Him, however your description shows God not having much love for people or He would use whatever talent was needed to bring you home rather than merely fry His kids. Religious stories do not add up. You will discover that everything about God will add up. When you have the real truth,you will never be able to find holes in the story.

Butterflies are very pretty and wonderful to catch, however they should be allowed to roam freely to make this world a prettier place. Don't you agree?? That is what God does. Who am I to do differently??

Yes I agree

We must all look beyond those stories religion teaches. We can then discover what God is really all about.

I guess the only true conclusion we can make is that these are all Stories. Perhaps it's time people give up stories to go in search of discovering the real truth. Everything about God will add up. Clearly those stories are lacking in that department.

Stories are great for movies and useful in scaring people to follow a religion, however stories are not reality. At some point one must choose what one values, stories or the truth. I must go for truth. Clearly, mantis36, you have shown many more holes in the story of the devil.

We have to remember that the Devil is a deceiver. He deceived Eve into disobeying God and that is what has brought all our problems. God has allowed the Devil and humans time to see what happens when we go our own way. What has been the result of not following God's ways? Wars, violence, abuse, oppression, suffering, etc. Soon the Devil's time will be up and then God will repair all the problems and defects that have resulted. He will use his obedient son Jesus Christ to rule the earth. And what a different world that will be! God will never again need to allow devil rule or human rule because it has been proven what happens. Then God will forever be the ruler of the universe.

I do not agree with the statement that we can not understand the mind of God. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. We are all meant to learn and understand it all. God's intellect reaches so far above ours that it requires a very open mind and a wide view and yet most will be missed, however one can work on it and discover so many new things. The journey to discover and knowledge takes much work. Doors can be opened to understanding. One must first hunger to Know.

you said: "Devil is a deceiver" then, that is why i truly believe that Satan is the king of lies... you said: "son Jesus Christ to rule the earth" and i am sure that what you mean after the judgement day is for our soul what we live after the judgement day is actually earth and not heaven because heaven is only a place for God and not for us.... but i am thinking that, how about if the Heaven that we mean is actually a Planet? and the Hell is a Planet too like Venus, Io, but i think Hell is a burning planet that God reserved it to fit the beliefs of Roman Catholics... and Heaven is also a Planet that something like an Avatar Movie where that Planet is more like a paradise where our souls abduct the life form there... oh my God, I watch too many sci-fi movies that's why my imagination overflows... because i believe that Heaven is not a smoke environment like what we see in the movie Clash of the Titans and Hercules, but a Heaven is actually a planet without pollution and i just remember the cool environment of Planet of the Apes movie... in the movie "Knowing" the chariot ball of fire in the picture drawn by the kids there on that movie is actually an extra-terrestrial spaceship like a "Noah's Ark" maybe the contents of the bible is not literally like that but more of it, has always a deep meaning in every words written....

Yes, what you say does make sense. It is so simple. Along with all the secrets of the universe, God will teach us to love unconditionally with this simple method. After all, unconditional love is what we all want to return. It just takes time for people to realize this. Indeed, the Adventure continues.

Yes, everything we do does return in order to teach us exactly what our actions mean. I guess this could feel like hell to some making very bad choices. Understanding is always the result not punishment. Can you really say that a fiery pit for eternity could be justified for any crime?? Eternity is a mighty long time. There is no room for redemption or learning.Does that really make sense for the actions of a Being capable of creating universes?? Like I said the devil is only an invention of mankind to create the alter ego of God. There is no need for such games if one cares only for the truth.

Still this leaves God lacking in the ability to lead you in the right direction regardless of the circumstances. Shouldn't God have the ability to say just the right thing by which you would go with God regardless?? If the devil is getting anyone away from God clearly God must be lacking in His methods. Of course those religious stories are no more than stories. That is not what God and this world are all about.

Yes,shouldn't God know just what to say to open any heart??? Are God's talents lacking to the point where the devil can tempt people away?? I thought God was perfect. Clearly, mankind has created stories to gain followers. The devil doesn't exist and God isn't playing games like religion does. It is a lesson for those who blindly follow.

Your quote:If God is all-knowing, then he surely knows from the beginning who will go to Hell and who'll go to Heaven, then why create us?! People who think as such do lack the mental ability to think. Don't you have it backward?? Those who do not take this into consideration do ignore this fact rather than understand it. This is a key piece of reason that will lead you to the real truth. Your quote: God is so Just that he won't throw a person in hell without letting the person know the reason why. Can you really say spending eternity in a fiery pit is just no matter the reason???