Separation of Church and State in Our Schools
@MizTeacherLady (37)
United States
November 27, 2011 12:48pm CST
As a teacher, I always notice, especially in social networking sites, people complaining that they are being "forced give up" saying the pledge, using the phrase "under God", celebrating Christmas, even saying Merry Christmas. In my school, and even in the district as a whole, schools still say the Pledge of Allegiance every day. We also celebrate Christmas, including gathering to sing carols a few times as a whole school. My worry is more whether we step on the toes of those who have other beliefs. I am thrilled to be able to sing my favorite Christmas songs, and have holiday activities. In my own classroom, in the rare times I've had a student whose beliefs don't allow pledging allegiance to the flag, or celebrating Christmas, I accommodate the best I can. The child can sit or stand respectfully while we recite the Pledge. And while we participate in Christmas activities, I provide similar, activities for those students. For example, instead of having the student study Christmas traditions around the world, I let them study children's activities from around the world. I often hear other teachers complain about the lack of respect from those who "refuse to say the Pledge." or "try to deny us our right to celebrate." I ask, "Who is denying who?" I don't feel they are being disrespectful at all. Some, for instance, believe pledging allegiance to a flag, is disrespectful to their God. I wish we could all understand and respect the beliefs of each other, and not take offense with the differences in customs, and cultures. What do you think?
3 people like this
8 responses
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
27 Nov 11
I believe that religious freedom is every citizens right. Religious training in schools is a violation of that right. A young child subjected to religious training is being brainwashed by teachers who may also have been brainwashed as kids in school. We can check this out by the obvious - The Worlds Leading countries, those with the most freedoms, the highest living standards, the fairest laws, and the highest immigration ,all have Separated Church from State!
@MizTeacherLady (37)
• United States
27 Nov 11
I agree. I never teach religion, at all. I do celebrate, as is tradition in my school. I am not sure that is fair. BUT, we have maybe (and this is probably being generous)5 out of 700 students that do not believe in celebrating Christmas. I also, believe that all should be able to share their customs if they choose. Specifically, are you saying that celebrating Christmas (without teaching religion) and saying the Pledge of Allegiance, should not be allowed? What about the pledge with the phrase, under God, removed? (the phrase was added much later, not by the author) In your opinion, is celebrating, a violation of separation of church and state? Right now, I am required to have my students say the Pledge, unless they are opposed individually. I do believe I should accommodate all students' beliefs. It would be nearly impossible for me to withdraw from Christmas celebrations in our school. (and must admit, I love them, anyway) But I am very concerned about doing the right thing by my students.
1 person likes this
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
27 Nov 11
Christian belief is personal and should discretionary! Allow those who choose to celebrate Christmas to do so. Pledging allegiance is another ball of wax. The students and their families have chosen the country of choice and the Flag that represents it, and should have no problem with the Pledge. As A Canadian I believe the "under God" phrase is just window dressing for the religious, but that's just my personal view. As a teacher you would get High marks for your personal integrity.!
@Rosa26 (2618)
• United States
28 Nov 11
You are doing a great job with your students, respecting each one beliefs, that is good, and make those that believe on christmas can have fun participating on activities about that,I think everybody ahve to respect the customs of each family,because the school are not to impose their beliefs are to guide the students in the best way to success in life.
@uath13 (8192)
• United States
1 Dec 11
If done properly you could still celebrate without the religious undertones that people would object to. Then everyone could participate. You could still sing songs like Dashing Through The Snow, Roudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, Walking in a Winter Wonderland, Santa Clause is Coming to Town etc. without offending anyone. The First Noel , O Holy Night & similar ones would have to be left off because of their religions context. Make it a celebration of the winter season.
@aerous (13434)
• Philippines
27 Nov 11
I think you should teach allegiance to your country instead allegiance to the flag. Because it maybe misunderstood with some people...allegiance to our own country is not bad at all. But being allegiance to the flag is different...that will represent worshiping the flag as some religious group interpreted...
You need to teach the student also why celebrating Christmas and it's beginning. If that really according to the bible and or it really required as to celebrate Christmas?
As far as I know there is no commandment in the bible to celebrate such event. In the time of our Lord Jesus Christ there is no such activities being teach by our Lord Jesus Christ...
That maybe the reason why some of your student did not participate in such activities in school.
I appreciate what you did. Because you still practice the law of separation of Church and State...
@MizTeacherLady (37)
• United States
28 Nov 11
I agree, that it makes more sense to pledge allegiance to a country, and not to a flag. The words can be confusing to some.
@Robswife2006 (1208)
• United States
27 Nov 11
I wish there were more people like you that are so understanding and respectful of others beliefs. Although I have no children of my own I do have a a niece and nephew who attend middle school. They do not say the "Pledge of Allegiance" nor do they celebrate Christmas on account of our religious beliefs. So far they have been very fortunate to have very understanding teachers that like you respect our beliefs and have worked with my sister and her children to do other activities while the rest of the class does their holiday ones. Never once does my niece or nephew make any of the other kids feel bad for doing what they believe in or try to stop any one else from joining in such activities. They just ask for the same respect that they have been taught to give others. So on behalf of my sister, her kids, and others like us I thank you for being so understanding and kind.
@MizTeacherLady (37)
• United States
27 Nov 11
Thank you for your kind words! Unfortunately, I hear, even among my own colleagues, an occasional, intolerant remark about the children, and their families. Thankfully, it has been rare. I always give my opinion, in those cases. Hopefully people, especially educators, will continue to grow and become tolerant. Hopefully we will all learn to embrace each other and our differences.
@polaroidsredwine (509)
• United States
28 Nov 11
For starters, I'm fairly certain that it was sometime in the 1950's that the words "under God" were put into the pledge, so it wasn't always there.
Back when I was in school, the general thing was to give a big general celebration for each holiday that goes on. The school choir would have a wide variety of songs that were for general holiday spirit and ones that fell under religious territory. "Merry Christmas," "Happy Holidays," "Happy Kwanzaa!" and other phrases would be plastered around the school. It allowed people to all feel included, no matter whether they were religious or not, and no one took any offence to it.
@MizTeacherLady (37)
• United States
28 Nov 11
You are right, the line was added much later. The Pledge was written in 1892, and the phrase was not added until 1954. I know many teachers in my school read stories about Kwanzaa, and other celebrations, to give our students a small taste of other cultural events in the world.
@smacksman (6053)
•
28 Nov 11
Hear hear! Well said!
The crux of the matter here is that you are a teacher. You are on the 'Front Line'. You actually know what is happening in schools.
I just hope "the Powers That Be" listen to your good common sense but experience tells me that your words of wisdom will vanish in the wind. 
Respect other beliefs - but as a majority and as a minority.
Respect other beliefs - but as a majority and as a minority.
@Danzylop (1120)
• Philippines
28 Nov 11
I can relate to you. I've had a friend, who then turned as a best friend actually. He was also my classmate. IN school, we always have class officers' election . Whenever he gets nominated , he would stand up and say NO and would even refuse to vote. I asked him about it and he said "Their is only one person who should lead us and that is GOD". While I respect his religion, I also had an idea that without leadership (for the human level) would ruin the world. I asked him once, "How do you differentiate praising God and and following leaders." He was able to give me a good answer but said " All i know is that I should look up to only one Person."
each person has his own way of thinking. He can choose what he wants to believe on. Thats a very good reason why we have to respect each one and another. We are all entitled to be respected when we respect all others too.
