Justice denied..is our present system right?

I think you understood what I wanted to say though I am not good at expressing it. Thanks dawny. :) First - law says let no innocent be punished even if 10 criminals escape. Right? Buy here, it is the boy who is innocent. He loses his contact with his mother for no fault of his and no natural act deprives him of his mother. Moreover, he will be looked down upon for the rest of his life because people will call him the son of a pimp. Nobody will like him for what he is. So what can be become, a drunkard, a frustrated person, possibly taking to crime because the society does not think of his social and emotional needs. He is young, and has no partner to fall back upon. Second - the victims. By sending the pimp to prison, how are we repairing the harm done to them? Even if we give whatever the pimp earned to these people, we wouldnt have really punished the woman. Once behind the bars, people tend to forget the matter. Few remember it after the person comes out. I am not saying she should be tormented or something. But she should be made to work hard and denied the same things that she denied others. It may sound a bit revengeful but our present system is not working is it? Has it stopped people from becoming pimps? No. They are taking their chances. Out of 10 we get hold of one or two. May be one of those gets away by bribing. So how does that system help Dawny? Third - as you mentioned it is protecting the population from criminals. I think the prisoners become more hardened criminals once they get together. They have a comparison zone. If they find somebody who has done things worse than them, then they condone themselves faster. Hardly a deterrant I feel. Once outside, they can be more serious threat because now they are better equipped with the training they have come across.

Yes. I agree. I think periodically the society changes. So we need to scrap the previous laws and rewrite fresh laws. What may have been wrong in the past may have become right now, and what is wrong now may have been right back then. We should not hesitate to rewrite the system if we want to evolve as better people. That includes constitution. And the archaic methods of imprisoning are really no good now with human rights people having added so many luxuries to them. Moreover, we know that prison guards can be bribed. So where is the real punishment for the woman. She would be as comfortable in as she was outside. I think we as a society should either make her go through similar humiliation or make her slog till the lives of all those whom she harmed get repaired. I am sorry that you should have to wait for so long. But eventually, when the verdict comes, will you and your children be reasonably compensated?

Are you trying to say that if somebody steals something from me, the law is only responsible for punishing the person, and not return anything mine that is recovered from him?

The law is very much responsible for punishing the culprit as well as recover anything is availble with him or her and return back. This we can not compare with the act of a pimp or a murderer. The law can punish a person, it can not get back a life.

The victims have lost self respect = me losing some gold I am given back my gold when it is recovered. Can we give back the victim that self respect? If not, how can we mitigate the pain. Sending the person to prison is foregone conclusion. Even the thief who steals my gold goes to prison. So how can the punishment for two entirely different crimes be the same?

"What is the price in this case?" - that's a question of law, not justice. Whatever the legal system says is the price, is the price. As for the son, justice would come from being re-homed in a better place with foster parents who actually care and who aren't criminals. Social justice as opposed to legal justice. As for society's responsibility, I don't know: I wouldn't say society is responsible. In many ways, her parents probably were. If she'd been educated to understand that being a pimp meant she's scum, she probably wouldn't do it. But then, are her parents' morals a result of society? If you go far enough, you can blame anyone. Personally, I believe in slapping criminals HARD. She broke the law, she pays the price. If the legal system says the price is prison, so be it. As for whether prisons should be soft or hard, that's another issue entirely.

Actually it was your comment that got me thinking. :) So you said break the law, pay the price. That's justice. Aw..where is she paying the price Spike? What is the price in this case? I would say repair the harm as far as possible is the price always. Now, in this case, she'd go to the prison and in about a month's time she would get habituated to her new routine. All this would be forgotten. Is that all you think she should be paying? I am not asking you to condone her. Not at all. I am more merciless than you are. I want her to face the same barbs as innocent ones must have faced. I want her to learn to live with them and understand others plight and put in efforts to correct the situation rather than get away so easily. And the mercy I was expecting was for the son, who is completely innocent in this picture. He is much too young to face this and understand its implications. Society is responsible for her ending up as pimp. Yeah, we need to take the blame upon ourselves as well. The present system is obviously not working otherwise she would not be a pimp and so also many others. So we need to review it. By forcing her to earn enough for those girls would turn the tables on her. That is what I want. I think that would work well as deterrant.

And once the person is sent to jail, society washes off its hands about victims. At least, out here, that is the way things are. And in prison, these days, we have everything. They have televisions, computers, cell phones. Thanks to human rights. So does it serve the purpose?

My case is posted on Jan 24th, and I am told they are asking for adjournment till 12th Feb. :) Yeah, waiting for justice serving. :)

http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/2612916.aspx

I beg to differ. Justice is about being just. So if I take something from you, without your permission, then you have a right to recover that from me. Merely sending me to prison wont serve the purpose of justice, would it? You see in this case, the victims will lose touch with all their loved ones. They are forced to live a life they dont really want but cannot change easily because they are recognised by one person too many. So their hurt is much deeper than merely sending a thief to the prison. Law needs to recognize that. Punishment is something that should work as a deterrant. After 10 years when the pimp comes out from prison, nobody would be talking about this case. She could get on with her life incognito but the victims would still be struggling to shake off the stigma. How then is the punishment right in such case. I agree that more people who understand the matter in depth should be involved in law making. As to anger and revenge - I am of the opinion that without that sort of action the pain in the hearts of the victims is unlikely to subside. I am not for killing. But my reason is that victims will have periodic bouts of self pity and everytime they face that they would need the punch bag. If the pimp is killed they would be denied that satisfaction. So I am not for that at all. On the other hand, I would force the pimp to work day in and day out and earn monies which would be sent to these girls. Something like that. It should scare people to be identified as pimps. Pimps should not be allowed to wear good clothes. They should not be allowed to sit in any restaurants or other public places. They lose their rights to use public transport. They should have to pay more for their daily needs. Something like that perhaps. I am not yet sure. But the present punishment is certainly way below the requirement.

No Hatley, I never said she should be allowed to raise her child. But I did say that she has to remain outside the prison. In this case, her son is pretty grown up. So he should not be looked down upon by the society notwithstanding the fact that he is her son. So there should be laws that prevent teasing or discriminating such a person because he is innocent. Second thing he has done no sin so he has all rights to stay with his mother or be there for her. However, she should not only lose all her possessions, but also rights to own anything in future. Therefore, she has should have no rights to stay in a house that is larger than the prison cell, even if it is her son's earning. She should have no rights to watch television, no rights to attend parties, no rights to wear good clothes, and a big list of no rights. She should have to manage her living within 1/10th of her earning, even if it means starving. Her son has no rights to contribute unless he is willing to live within 1/10th of his earnings. She should be made to work hard hatley. Merely sending her to prison hardly does that. People should see her suffering and get scared to become pimps. People dont really know how she is suffering behind the bars, do they? Other criminals might end up teaching her a few tricks which she is more likely use the next time. So I do feel that 90 percent of her earning should be distributed amongst her victims for the rest of their lives. Because their entire lives are spoilt. I am a bit cruel, but I do feel by sending her behind the bars, we are not really repairing the harm done to the extent feasible.

yes because i am you son.