Cooking gas, subsidies, costs, and dumb ways to juggle it all..
By vanny
@vandana7 (100249)
India
December 29, 2011 8:40am CST
For those who dont know ..I am an Indian.
So..we cook our food with LPG (butane). We get it in cylinders. Once a month we need a refill and if the gas cylinder does not arrive within one week of order, we start getting tense.
Did I forget to tell you that it is heavily subsidized? I guess I did. So we have hoteliers, and private autorickshaw drivers using this gas against the law.
It occurred to me that in other countries they either use electricity which we dont have anyway, or send gas in pipes. Wouldnt that be a nice way to save on petrol/diesel.. after all, everytime the gas is delivered at our door step, there is a vehicle waiting downstairs.
Agreed that government cant afford to lay those pipelines. But the government can collect some deposits from those who can afford! Wouldnt that be easier? I mean everybody who has a connection should be asked to pay around 200 to 250 dollars to get that line right up to their home. Those who cant afford even that much should have to pay marginally extra for the gas they receive. That extra should go towards regular upkeep of the supply deparment, while the monies received from others should be used to lay those lines.
It is easy to estimate the usage per household. Each line can have a meter installed in each home, and a meter installed for the entire line in the supply station. That way pilferage and stealing can be identified more easily. Since lines will be laid one by one, and everytime a new connection is given, additional gas will be sent through the lines, it shouldnt be difficult to monitor it all. Computers will help a lot. Such things were not possible before. But now they are.
Do we really need those subsidies if we can save on petrol and pilferage? Why should we be foregoing spending on other things instead of managing our resources better?
End of Vandy's rant for the day..
By the way, does Anna Hazare know this..
3 people like this
11 responses
@srganesh (6340)
• India
30 Dec 11
I don't think that this will work. For, our municipalities already implied this method in water connections. There was a water meter to all connections from the municipality and that was said to calculate the usage per house.
Did that system work? The problem is, there is no adequate water supply and same implies to the gas too. Only if they can afford as much gas to everybody needs, your idea can be of use.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
30 Dec 11
Oh but I am pretty sure it would work. I mean - we now have better systems to trap those who steal. We know how much gas each household needs, and we could sanction as much. We would of course have a meter installed. But the line itself will have several check points installed at different locations - which again will be periodically relocated. A computer will indicate any excess in any patch. I think this should be done everywhere - for water as well as electricity. We can control you know.
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
30 Dec 11
And gas is adequate. The problem is it is being taken away by hoteliers, and some vehicles - which are supposed to pay hefty sum for that but they try to avoid. By including them in the line, we already know how much they would be consuming, and even if they try to take extra, they would pay at the rates applicable to them. Isn't it?
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
30 Dec 11
And we could also have a slab system - in the sense if anybody tried to use home connection to fill their vehicles, then naturally they would reach the higher slab, and consequently they would be paying at non-subsidized rates.
At least, I think it is feasible...
1 person likes this
@bird123 (10643)
• United States
30 Dec 11
Here in the USA, natural gas costs about half what LPG does. That's a big savings. Further today's outside underground gas lines are plastic. It's not as expensive to run as one might think. A small town could possible have enough people to make running those lines worth it. Natural gas is cleaner and much safer than LPG. Like you said. It comes to you rather than going after it and worrying about running out.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
30 Dec 11
Actually bird.. we get cooking gas which is highly subsidized. Hotels are supposed to buy it at non subsidized rates, they dont.
Then there are auto rickshaw drivers. Subsidized LPG is cheaper than diesel so they modify their vehicles to run them on LPG.
Periodically, government hikes the prices. Common man is forced to absorb the additional costs created by these people. Moreover, the shortage is also due to such unscrupulous folks.
But more than that..everyday the vehicles to up and down carrying empty cylinders and filled cylinders to different locations in the locality. Each locality gets its supply of gas from government units. Why are they wasting money on petrol/diesel to run those supply vans day in and day out? Does it not cost our country? Surely we can save on those costs, and do away with the subsidy.. that is how I feel.
@mayka123 (16605)
• India
30 Dec 11
Hi Vandy,
I think all your discussions need to be sent to Anna Hazare. Just reading your discussions will give him an idea of what the common man in India is going through. Then surely he will make you the CM if not the PM to implement all your ideas. Anyway being the PM does not give you many powers because that is in the hands of others. So the CMs post is better for you. And I would suggest to Anna to make you CM of 3/4 different states simultaneously. So all will get piped gas, solar cars... and I cannot remember the rest now. And please dont forget me when you become the CM. One more thing you should implement is better options for working online for people like me who is not happy with the job in hand and not getting another job.
Happy New year sweetie. 
@bhanusb (5709)
• India
1 Jan 12
Hi vandana,
Anna Hazare can't do any miracle. It is easy to say, but not easy to do. I think gas supply through pipe line will create another hazard. In the cities there are several pipe lines and wires under the earth. Any trouble in any pipe line can create lick age in gas pipes. If it happens that will be dangerous. LPG cylinders are more safe. A vast economy like India can't run for long period by giving subsidies almost in all sectors.
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
1 Jan 12
If safety is the concern here, I would agree. But if it is subsidy - I have already mentioned
Suppose you and me we can afford to pay around 12500 to 15000 INR for each connection as deposit with the givernment. There are so many flats (apartments). Government is going to save a lot on those because it will not have to lay separate lines for each flat, a small extension of the gas pipeline which would cost it approximately 3000 would be needed. Effectively, the entire complex gets gas and almost half the money is saved leaving enough for laying the pipeline to the area - covering even those who cant afford to pay 15000 INR. Now, these folks would have to pay higher amount per month for LPG - calculated at savings bank account rate in post office or state bank of india. The 15000 deposit is deemed valid for 25 years period. After that period, the person has to renew by paying a fresh deposit at an adjusted rate. Something like that. I think it is possible. Time we stopped expecting free lunches in form of subsidies.
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
29 Dec 11
I think I am going to sue god for injustices done to Indians..he gives us no electricity but gives us so much population! How on earth are we supposed to feed them..
Where I am, its pretty warm. :) Hyderabad...India..no snow. No water freezing. No woolen clothes either. 
Where I am, its pretty warm. :) Hyderabad...India..no snow. No water freezing. No woolen clothes either. 1 person likes this
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
29 Dec 11
Hi Saphrina 
Missed you dear. Belated MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Ever since the new avatar came up, I was just wondering why is that person in that pose. I know I should not ask granny (to avoid her whips) but then, I dont like tasking my little small brain... it is already overworked
I found this place quite safer to ask you... and in case you mind me asking, sorry.... I will ask via PM
Missed you dear. Belated MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Ever since the new avatar came up, I was just wondering why is that person in that pose. I know I should not ask granny (to avoid her whips) but then, I dont like tasking my little small brain... it is already overworked
I found this place quite safer to ask you... and in case you mind me asking, sorry.... I will ask via PM 1 person likes this
@jaihobalodiji1 (949)
• India
29 Dec 11
yes it is a good initiation of spreading the gas pipelines across the city, and your saying of taking extra money for spreading pipelines a good one too, but you need to check it out that how many peoples have incomes to afford that extra charge they need to give ofr pipe lines, if you are thinking about some thing think about whole atleast in india. every one in india is suffering from financial crises. they have to looks towards their budget before investing in someextra needs. you and i both are indians we are aware of this fact.
1 person likes this
@jaihobalodiji1 (949)
• India
29 Dec 11
yes we can do it for everything but keeping all aspects in mind, the peoples, the money and the resourses availabe.beacause it india, we the peoples
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
31 Dec 11
Well, if in your country you have people using bottled gas illegally, imagine what happens when the same people start digging up pipelines to use a bit of that gas for free!
all the best urban
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
1 Jan 12
Happy New Year Urban. :)
As to your concern, I agree that people would try that. However, there would have to be meters installed at different places to identify the pilferage immediately. And since we now have computers, I think monitoring such things is far more easier than it was a decade ago.
@Hatley (163776)
• Garden Grove, California
30 Dec 11
hi vanda I wish your government would listen to people like
you. we have had gas piped into our homes and businesses
for many many years, surely your government could do the
same thing using the incredible intelligence you just'
outlined. Only people out in the country ever have to
use Butane to cook and heat with.Surely someone in your government
has thought of doing it this way , or have they?They have
computers now so it all should not be that hard to implement.Being an
American I really do not know just who Anna Hazare is but hope
she can help to get you switched to piped in gas in your homes
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
30 Dec 11
Hatley with computers and contributions from those who can afford - it would be so easy to do it..
And saving on diesel/petrol is good not only for our country it is good for other countries as well because we would be reducing the demand for these fuels. Consequently the prices would remain subdued a bit..every cent counts, isn't it?
And I have not mentioned the environmental advantage or global warming...please remember ours is a heavily populated country..so a gas connection in each house means everyday the vehicle is coming to each lane for supplying gas cylinder to one or more homes. Ridiculous.
And Anna Hazare is a Gandhian. The only problem is he is a simpleton. He doesnt understand the lazyness of our ministers to think of such things and propose such things.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
29 Dec 11
When I was working for CDAC and based at Pune, they put me up in an Apartment complex and I found that they had the self-generated bio-gas served right into the kitchens of their flats via pipelines. Wasnt that great? The only problem in India is that most of us take pride to wait until anyone took action... Perfect Gandhian Philosophy and its implementation is 100% here...
Anna? Whoever... Oldie doesnt know that he has only one brain that is too simple to think anything as complex as the cumulative brains of the People in Government and Authorities in Power... If only it was that complex, he would not have teaching us to sit on Fasts to achieve something which is beyond my capabilities.
ps: Was that a rant in response to R one
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
29 Dec 11
You bet..
I get inspired you know..
Biogas has an issue thesids. It creates some very harmful pollutants. At least that is what I was told. My uncle used to have it. Then he had it dismantled because his younger son got a nervous system ailment similar to parkinsons.
Yeah..if Anna could start attending to small problems one by one, the whole nation would be behind him forever. He took too far a leap and didnt know there were sharks, whales, piranhas..EVERYWHERE.
I get inspired you know..
Biogas has an issue thesids. It creates some very harmful pollutants. At least that is what I was told. My uncle used to have it. Then he had it dismantled because his younger son got a nervous system ailment similar to parkinsons.
Yeah..if Anna could start attending to small problems one by one, the whole nation would be behind him forever. He took too far a leap and didnt know there were sharks, whales, piranhas..EVERYWHERE.@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
30 Dec 11
I have not got much idea on Bio Gas either. But the fact is that when that small community of about 240 flats and maybe the same number of families can think about organizing their own set of solutions, the rest of the nation too can think and try to implement. But as I mentioned, we are happy that we are in our rooms, houses and we wait for others to do our work
@francesca5 (1344)
•
1 Jan 12
if its any consolation in the uk, this little country, a lot of rural areas, like villages don't have gas. a lot of them heat their homes with oil, which has got very expensive lately, though they do have realiable enough electricity to cook with it, except when it snows.
@vandana7 (100249)
• India
1 Jan 12
Happy new year..:)
For starters, we are not very big in area but population wise, you would be astounded. So when gas is supplied to a few homes in one day it does not mean that the next day the vehicle would not come again in that lane. Imagine how many trips the vehicle makes to each lane in a month. That is a lot of oil down the drain. It affects the prices across the world, not only within my country, because of the demand supply mechanism.
@microengineer (587)
• Indonesia
7 Jan 12
I think that is problems of many countries. We also have problem with raising cost of LPG. But giving subsidies is not solution, why? with subsidies many people tend to spend more and more resources carelessly. They do not thing any problems because the prices was kept low. But it is also double edged sword. If we raise the price, the industry will suffer more.
But efficiency can be enhanced much more easily in industry than at home.
Just wishing people become wise in spending energy.
