Punishment for bogus signatures
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
January 30, 2012 11:04am CST
Here in Wisconsin, the person circulating a recall petition has to sign their name, certifying that they know the signatures are valid properly obtained. Do you think there should be legal action taken against circulaters if they certified bogus signatures? What should it be?
2 people like this
5 responses
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
31 Jan 12
I think there should be some kind of punishment if it is found to be they purposely broke the law. But, many times in cases like this people sign these not knowing what they are signing, so what do you do then? There was a petition here in Ohio to pass the same kind of bill they did there, and they were paying people to get signatures. Many of them were not valid, but they got enough to get it on the ballet, where if failed!! I guess if you made it punishable than people might think before they sign. Personally, I think they should outlaw these groups that pay for votes. I don't think there is anything less American than buying votes!!!!
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
31 Jan 12
The problem is, they have taken most the checks and balances out of the petition system. It used to be that circulaters took a class, now there is only instructions on a website. They also had to get the petitions notarized. There is no requirement for a third party verification anymore.
The petitions can be downloaded, so anyone can be a circulater. When they are done, they are supposed to sign their name to this statement:
"I personally circulated this petition and personally obtained each of the signatures on this paper. I know that the signers are electors of the jurisdiction or district represented by the office holder named in this petition. I know that each person signed the paper with full knowledge of its content on the date indicated opposite his or her name. I know their respective residence given. I support this recall petition. I am aware that falsifying this certification is punishable under S. 12.13(3)(a), Wis. State."
2 people like this
@kenzie45230 (3560)
• United States
31 Jan 12
Looks like they need those checks and balances back. And, yes, there should be punishment. Make them spend a week learning about what they were petitioning against - all sides.
@knoodleknight18 (917)
• United States
1 Feb 12
Well if its punishable under S 12.13(3)(a). Then doesn't that answer the question?
Before we make a huge deal out of punishing for false signatures. We really have to take a practical look at the situation. A petition first and foremost is rarely used to make a big change if any. Usually if its that big of an issue lots of voters will already be notifying their reps. It takes a lot of work and often multiple circulators of a petition to get enough signatures as the system stands right now. A simple signing allows for duplicate or false signatures if people don't pay attention, but it also protects the privacy of the signers. If you can get enough signatures with 90% validity your doing about as good as can be expected. The voting system is regulated and less than 100% accurate to say the least. To have a highly regulated petition system would be costly and effectively render a simple but effort intensive process useless.
Then look at the criminal aspect. It might make people afraid of circulating petitions since even in the best conditions people may sign multiple times or with a false name or id. Then imagine the burden of proof of combing through to find bogus signatures and having to prove beyond reasonable doubt the circulator put them there. Its simply neither prudent nor practical under normal circumstances to try and prosecute a petition based on a few bad signatures.
The system isn't great, but its rarely used and even more rarely effective. So aside from a few very rare cases of blatant abuse, it functions pretty well given real world limitations.
1 person likes this
@peavey (16936)
• United States
30 Jan 12
Of course there should be, just like when you break any law. Since our criminal courts are overwhelmed, why not require a few hundred hours of community service on top of a hefty fine. Make them wear a sign that says, "I cheat and lie." Ok, the last one wouldn't go over, but why not the first two?
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
31 Jan 12
I do think there should be some penalty. I saw people collecting signatures simply had the petition to the next person who replaced them and they started gathering signatures. As I understand the process the people who collect the signatures don't have to check for false ones or duplicates. If it is that important an issue for them to gather signatures then they should be held accountable to certify the signatures. There should also be a threshold that when you hit that many fraudulent signatures the recall is over and they have to start over.
@dragon54u (31634)
• United States
30 Jan 12
I do think there should be a penalty for knowingly accepting improperly obtained signatures because the person is defrauding the voters. They are making a mockery of our voting system.
There should be some sort of fine, big enough so that it hurts. There should be mandatory jail time or no less than 1000 hours of community service. Some people might think that's overkill but someone who purposely tries to corrupt the voting process is changing the lives of millions without their consent and obstructing the will of the voters.
1 person likes this
@jaihobalodiji1 (949)
• India
31 Jan 12
yes they should have to be punished but one thing which i am thinking is that what is the ideal punishment for such incident. may be you will come up with intresting examples. i thing taking all his bank amount will be a good one.