Why aren't people pointing out the obvious about who pays taxes?
@thegreatdebater (7316)
United States
May 22, 2012 6:23pm CST
Right wingers like to point out that near 50% of the American people don't pay federal taxes. But, what this is pointing out is that the middle class in this country is disappearing. If Americans were making more money, they would be paying more in taxes. Why don't people look at all of the high paying factory jobs that have disappeared, replaced by lower paying Wal Mart jobs. Older workers who didn't need a college degree to get a high paying job, are now struggling. Younger workers who do have college degrees have to pay back tens of thousands, to hundreds of thousands in loans that will cut down their taxable income. A married couple with three kids has to make $60,000 a year to pay a dime in taxes, how many of us are out there? I don't pay taxes because I am a member of this group. I would love to pay taxes, but I don't make enough money to off set my deductions. While right wingers want to attack Democrats saying they are creating people reliant on the government. They ignore the fact that all of us want to make enough money to pay taxes, but the ultra wealthy became so greedy that they took those good paying jobs to other countries where they could make more money. So who else on here would like to make enough money to pay taxes?
2 people like this
8 responses
@rewardsinlife (1132)
• United States
23 May 12
Also, to add in is that many full time jobs have now gone to part time with no benefits or they no longer exist. I barely make enough right now to pay taxes. Just in the poverty line rather than welfare line which hurts too because I don't get benefits of stamps for food and live practically on a couple hundred dollars per month.
1 person likes this
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
23 May 12
If you ask the right wingers on here, they would say that is PROGRESS!!! Who needs full time jobs when you can have three part time jobs? But, offering part time jobs instead of full time jobs doesn't benefit the employers, it benefits the employees who can work 90 hours a week to make the same as someone working 40.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
23 May 12
Out of all the countries in the world, we have more high paying jobs here, than nearly anywhere else.
Factory jobs have naturally declined because factories are producing more goods with fewer people, which benefits everyone.
The fact is, Democrats do make people dependent on the government. And no, you are flat out wrong. Jobs are not going to other countries because of greed. The fact you think this shows you have never talked to a single person in business.
The reason why jobs go overseas is because if they don't, they'll go out of business completely. Would you rather have a few jobs lost and the company saved, or everyone losing their jobs?
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
23 May 12
"Out of all the countries in the world, we have more high paying jobs here, than nearly anywhere else."
Yup, because in reality, anyone making over $34,000 a year is a member of the top 1% of earners in the world. How many of the top 1% are Americans? HALF!
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/economy/world_richest/index.htm?iid=HP_LN
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
23 May 12
And that should tell you something. You have more opportunity to become the richest 1% in the world, here in America, than anywhere else in the world.
Given that, why would you want to remove that ability from Americans?
But regardless, even the poorest of Americans live a better life style than anywhere else in the world. The poor working people in Mexico live in refrigerator boxes. Our poor have cars, TVs, electricity, food, apartments, indoor plumbing. All the things we take for granted, the poor in other countries do not have.
We have it better here, than nearly anywhere on the planet.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
23 May 12
Andy, so you are comparing the US to third world countries now? Is that how far we have fallen? This country use to be the greatest country in the world, now we are a little better than your average third world country. Now THAT IS PROGRESS!!!!!
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
23 May 12
"Why don't people look at all of the high paying factory jobs that have disappeared, replaced by lower paying Wal Mart jobs. Older workers who didn't need a college degree to get a high paying job, are now struggling."
Hey, I hate progress as much as you do...
Seriously, things change. More jobs do require college degrees and the number of people getting college degrees has risen exponentially over the years. There was a time when you could rise to the top through hard work and experience and now the way to the top is through a college degree. But that's not a political problem, that's a change in the basic industries of the nation and a reflection of the growing number of people in the job market with secondary education.
When people point out that nearly 50% of Americans don't pay any taxes, it isn't because they really wish they did. It's to show how silly it is to claim that the wealthy aren't paying their share. When you consider more than 70% of all tax revenues to be less than the fair share of about 1% of the population, you've got math problems.
Hey, that's funny... math problems. Get it?
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
23 May 12
I agree that many jobs require a college degree, but that doesn't help the people that are in their 40's and 50's who don't have a degree, and are making half of what they did in their 20's.
The problem isn't that they aren't paying their fair share, the problem is that they are getting around paying taxes by taking advantage of a tax code which is more like 1930's Chicago, than a democracy. I talked to a customer of mine today who told me about a friend of his who set up a scholarship at a church he is a long time member of. He had the church set up a scholarship that was strictly setup around what his son was doing in school. Then his friend donated the same amount of the scholarship to the church, thus getting a tax break for putting his kid through school. This is what rich people can do that the rest of us could NEVER do.
Most Americans would like to pay taxes, but our income doesn't exceed our deductions.
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
24 May 12
Another thing is holding us down is that the government is lying to us about the inflation rate. Most business give pay increases to the employees based on the inflation rate. Which they say is only 2-3 percent, when it is actually higher. Therefore our pay is actually decreasing.
I have 25 years of experience in my job, and when I find a new hired, right out of school get hired in my line of work for about the same pay I make, when I have been given promotions with pay raises, I know I am not keeping up with inflation.
1 person likes this
@keasling (723)
• United States
23 May 12
Have you thought why they went over seas? Why pay someone 100 an hour with the hourly wage and benefits when they can get the same work for 50 an hour. Or why pay a higher tax when you can pay next to no tax. Why do people think that corporations are out there are to be a charitable company and not make any money. No one opens a business to make no profit. Making a profit is what owning a business is about. You actually think by creating a higher tax on the wealthy is going to solve our problems? There is not enough of the 1% and then it trickles down to the middle class anyway, and after the middle class gets hit then it goes to the lower class. We have to quit spending so much money we do not have. We need people to get off of welfare completely and to start working, whether they get the refund at the end of the year or not they are still paying in taxes. My husband and I got everything back due to my going to school and our three kids. We get no help from the government besides my student loans which I intend to pay off every penny. It is those who are irresponsible with money, not paying their debt and then complain that they are in debt. We need to educate people about not living outside their means. You can have a 50K year job and live in a 150K house.It is time for the citizens of this country and our government to be fiscally responsible.
@keasling (723)
• United States
24 May 12
You are wrong, where I may not pay federal income tax, or shall I say I get it back, I do pay property tax and school tax. I do not claim these on my taxes like I have been told I can do. I pay taxes.
How you think people are not living on welfare is beyond me. I know of families that get housing, food stamps, medicade, and cash benefits. Their children have children and their cash benefits go up. I have seen people work under the table and receive these benefits as well. People live on welfare, they make welfare their job. They hide income, They have their multiple cars in other peoples names so they do not have to claim it.
After I graduate my hubby and I will pay income tax. What I do not understand is why people think it is right to take more money from one person just because they have more. Why would someone want to be successful when the government will take more of it when they do.
It was not just Republicans that had and use scare tactics on us citizens. People need to look at both sides of the fence. See the good and the bad of everything.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
23 May 12
I understand why businesses send jobs overseas, the problem is that our trade agreements make it economical to import products from communist countries. Funny how 30 years ago Republicans would have tried to charge you with treason if you did ANYTHING with communist, today we send BILLIONS to them, and they send us JUNK!!!
People aren't living on welfare anymore, we had welfare reform years ago that took care of that.
I see you are part of the 50% that don't pay a dime in federal taxes either. Would you like to make enough to pay taxes?
Actually, you do get help from the government because of your low tax rate because of your kids, and your tax refund is a tax break from the government. Funny, when you look at the facts you will see the truth.
@knoodleknight18 (917)
• United States
24 May 12
This all rediculousness. I agree with the initial conclusion. Let's stick to that, there's clearly a problem with incomes if most of the people aren't paying taxes, I have a college degree and worked with a bunch of other college grads who are scraping by with the same jobs they did through college to finish paying of school. The companies that were failing did little if any better by exporting jobs, were still in a crisis partly due to price driven inflation when gas prices skyrocketed. All it takes for another recession is for gas to go up again, and it will be much much worse. The unemployment rate is only down because it only reflects how many people are getting unemployment. It's a very poor indicator of the job market.
Yada yada yada. If a company can make 10,000,000,000 in profits and they employ 10,000 people at 30,000 each, that means their total labor cost was all of 300,000,000 a fraction of their profit margin. Stew on that.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
24 May 12
I hate to tell you this, but when the economy goes down the price of gas usually does as well.
I understand that a company is only going to look at the bottom line, but if we make it easier for them to make products in other countries and import them here, than why would they employ people here? We need to make it easier for them to make money here, and harder to export jobs. Ending tax cuts to export jobs is a good start. Tax breaks for the companies that actually create jobs, not the ones that can afford to buy the most representatives!!!
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
23 May 12
So what is the democrats answer...Raise the taxes on the companies the are still here and drive the away too?
You are missing one BIG point here. The right wingers you mention here also want the government to be smaller and spend less so there will not need to be as much taxes on the 50% that does pay taxes. Then these businesses that are still here can grow and produce more of these jobs and create the jobs you are talking about.
So then you guys can make more money and have the privilege of paying taxes, too.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
23 May 12
Fat, my answer personally is to change our trade agreements to make it harder to import goods from especially communist countries like China.
I understand that the tax aspect of this, but the problem is that our tax code is not set up for the job creators. Our tax code is set up to protect the large corporations that buy representatives and use them to eliminate competition. Small businesses create many times more jobs than corporations. But, I hate to tell you this, but the size of government won't have any thing to do with the tax problems with businesses. Changing how we fund elections, and stop the corruption in Washington is the only way to stop that.
@crossbones27 (49722)
• Mojave, California
23 May 12
You hit it on the head there. Why can't people see that? It is not that hard to figure out what is really the problem here?
1 person likes this
@Fatcat44 (1141)
• United States
24 May 12
debater,
Any tariffs on the cheap Chinese stuff sold in the US is actually would actually be like a tax to the people who use it. The people right now buy the cheaper stuff to try to save some of their money.
I can agree with you that the tax codes do penalize the small business owners...and this cannot be blamed all on the republicans. Both parties are guilty of this. Obama and co, have some of the biggest corporations and richest people donating to them, and he is rewarding them. Many of them are helping write the bills to be presented. So you cannot blame only both the republicans on this. It goes both ways.
I am conservative and I disagree with things the republicans do, but I totally disgusted in what I see going on in the democrat party. Both the republicans and the democrats are heading us down the wrong road to total socialism, it is just the democrats will get us there faster.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
23 May 12
My point is that most Americans would like to make enough money to off set their deductions. But, for many the jobs they have do not pay enough. If there were higher paying jobs like those moved to China and Mexico you would see more people paying taxes. But, our trade agreements make it much more lucrative to export these jobs, and import the products made in other countries.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
23 May 12
How does that mean the middle class is disappearing? What in your world qualifies someone as middle class? For a married couple with 3 kids $60,000 isn't really that much money. That's two parents, each making $30,000 per year.
Wages aren't the problem, cost of living is the problem. The government with all their ridiculous costs and regulations have made running a business very expensive which, in turn, has caused businesses to either raise the costs of goods and services, or outsource to keep costs low.
You know what one of those costs is? Minimum wage employees. Businesses are now required to pay unskilled 16 year olds $7.25/hour. That's a lot of money for people whose primary skill is saying "paper or plastic?" or "Would you like fries with that?" Since minimum wage employees are more numerous than people at higher levels, raising minimum wage hits the budget hard, and makes it more difficult to raise the wages of higher level employees who actually have marketable skills. Democrats operate under this delusion that if they raise the minimum wage, everyone benefits. In reality only one group benefits, people making minimum wage.